Due to Sweden's messed up employment laws, I am legally required to say that I publicly support my company's push to move all on-prem infrastructure into AWS...
Not related to the outage, really, this morning I found myself searching for federated IM protocols, ideally end-to-end encrypted. I know we have @matrix but was looking for something more DM-oriented like Signal, but federated.
Looked into XMPP, but E2E encryption relies on add-ons. It seems the closest we have to that is actually #Matrix.
An XMPP Extension Protocol based on a Double Ratchet and PEP which can be freely used and implemented by anyone. The protocol has been audited by a third party.
@hook @pedrosanta @matrix Ooh! More helpful info - sometimes when I ask people stuff they just go all blank as if I should already know, thank you so much!
Another cool feature of #XMPP are "gateways" that make it relatively easy to connect with other IMs. e.g. #Libervia to #ActivityPub and #email (CC @Goffi )
@hook @TheDailyBurble @Goffi @nicoco @pedrosanta @matrix Wasn't XMPP originated by Trillian, or at least weren't they an early adopter? If so, I recall at the time there was difficulty adhering to the standard acrosss IM clients, and that led to the product's demise.
@AncTreat5358, Trillian was just a multi-IM client. It did have XMPP support though.
My spotty recollection of it goes: - first it was Jabber, later renamed to XMPP and submited to IETF - it was quite popular in more nerdy circles - Google with GTalk and FB with its Messenger (both XMPP servers) pull the "embrace, extend, extinguish" stratagem to grow their networks and then close them off
- XMPP was never a product, it is a protocol (on top of which some products are built) - It has not been extinguished, first GTalk users didn't federate anymore, and then GTalk was extinguished. XMPP is still alive (except if I am in the afterlife and don't know about it yet ;o))
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Signal does not work for me. Apparently @signalapp@mastodon.world is being hosted by AWS?
Given that AWS has a major outage & Signal is down for me.
But then instead of disrupting everything with your genius business idea you'll have to deal with technical details like keeping things actually working and running.
Not worth it for most businesses, users get used to occasional outages.
The pain when you realize that your donations to Signal end up with Bezos... No blame to Signal, in fact there are few alternatives to the global services of Amazon, Microsoft, and a few others when price and simplicity matter. I would love to see networks of large cooperatives at work here!
@TheBreadmonkey Still better uptime than running your own, tbh.
Besides, I am sure every affected business just smoothly migrated to their fully updated and tested business continuity plan, making it a low loss mild inconvenience at worst 😒
but you save money by not hiring people..you can spent that Money on consultants and aws fees. And just think about poor Jeff. A man needs to feed his rockets, helicopters and super Yachts.
Mike Roach
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Ah, so this is why the Docker registry is completely unavailable. Happy Monday, developers!
Time to prioritise setting up a build dependency cache...
Soenke Ruempler
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Tor Iver Wilhelmsen
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Who knew that the cloud was just someone else’s servers somewhere?
Everyone did, though.
crumbletiltskin
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Awesome, my bank has just migrated to AWS.
It's such a clever model, loved working in it. Pity it's owned by such a shitty person
Aaron Caskey-Demaret
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Attila Kinali
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Pedro Machado Santa
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Not related to the outage, really, this morning I found myself searching for federated IM protocols, ideally end-to-end encrypted. I know we have @matrix but was looking for something more DM-oriented like Signal, but federated.
Looked into XMPP, but E2E encryption relies on add-ons. It seems the closest we have to that is actually #Matrix.
1/
Matija Šuklje
in reply to Pedro Machado Santa • • •@pedrosanta, XMPP is an extensible/modular (hence the name) protocol, that is why pretty much all functions are described in separate XEP.
For many years already though, there have been specific XEP suites, to simplify what's e.g. absolutely needed vs optional for IM.
As for E2EE, pretty much all modern XMPP clients have OMEMO built in.
@bagder @matrix
Cabbidges
in reply to Matija Šuklje • • •@hook @pedrosanta @matrix
I wish it wasn't all letters (acronyms) I have to look up on what's left of the web tho.
There's a single point of failure if ever I saw one. I'm sure you're very wise but I will never know what you're talking about.
Matija Šuklje
in reply to Cabbidges • • •@TheDailyBurble, I apologize, this forced brevity is why I dislike μ-blogs as a format as well.
IM = Instant Messaging (i.e. chat)
XMPP = eXtensible Messaging and Presence Protocol (a.k.a. Jabber)
XEP = XMPP Extension Protocol
E2EE = End-to-End Encryption
OMEMO = OMEMO Multi-End Message and Object Encryption (i.e. same cryptographic algorithm as Signal)
@pedrosanta @matrix
Matija Šuklje
in reply to Matija Šuklje • • •@TheDailyBurble
Most relevant links to that:
xmpp.org/
xmpp.org/extensions/ – the base protocol is implemented as IETF RFCs, while added functionality as XEP by the XMPP Standards Foundation
xmpp.org/about/compliance-suit…
omemo.top/
conversations.im/omemo/
IETF RFC = Internet Engineering Task Force’s international (quasi)standard
@pedrosanta @bagder @matrix
OMEMO Multi-End Message and Object Encryption
conversations.imCabbidges
in reply to Matija Šuklje • • •Ooh! More helpful info - sometimes when I ask people stuff they just go all blank as if I should already know, thank you so much!
Matija Šuklje
in reply to Cabbidges • • •@TheDailyBurble, happy to help.
Another cool feature of #XMPP are "gateways" that make it relatively easy to connect with other IMs.
e.g.
#Libervia to #ActivityPub and #email (CC @Goffi )
nlnet.nl/project/Libervia
libervia.org
#Slidge to all sorts of other IM like #Matrix, #Mattermost, #Steam, #Discord, #Whatsapp, FB … (CC @nicoco )
slidge.im
@pedrosanta @bagder @matrix
slidge.im — Gateways from XMPP to Other Networks
slidge.imWill 🏳️🌈
in reply to Matija Šuklje • • •Matija Šuklje
in reply to Will 🏳️🌈 • • •@AncTreat5358, Trillian was just a multi-IM client. It did have XMPP support though.
My spotty recollection of it goes:
- first it was Jabber, later renamed to XMPP and submited to IETF
- it was quite popular in more nerdy circles
- Google with GTalk and FB with its Messenger (both XMPP servers) pull the "embrace, extend, extinguish" stratagem to grow their networks and then close them off
@TheDailyBurble @Goffi @nicoco @pedrosanta @matrix
Will 🏳️🌈
in reply to Matija Šuklje • • •Nicoco
in reply to Will 🏳️🌈 • • •@AncTreat5358
Some nitpicks:
- XMPP was never a product, it is a protocol (on top of which some products are built)
- It has not been extinguished, first GTalk users didn't federate anymore, and then GTalk was extinguished. XMPP is still alive (except if I am in the afterlife and don't know about it yet ;o))
Simon Zerafa
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Gharbeia, Ⓐ
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •context:
mastodon.social/@festal@tldr.n…
and related:
mastodon.social/@BjornW/115405…
@BjornW@mastodon.social (@BjornW@mastodon.social)
@BjornW@mastodon.social (Mastodon)adb
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Martin Marconcini
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Anton Gerasimov
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •But then instead of disrupting everything with your genius business idea you'll have to deal with technical details like keeping things actually working and running.
Not worth it for most businesses, users get used to occasional outages.
Randulo.com (Randy)
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Tajuyan Tachyon
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •No blame to Signal, in fact there are few alternatives to the global services of Amazon, Microsoft, and a few others when price and simplicity matter.
I would love to see networks of large cooperatives at work here!
David Cohen
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •@TheBreadmonkey Still better uptime than running your own, tbh.
Besides, I am sure every affected business just smoothly migrated to their fully updated and tested business continuity plan, making it a low loss mild inconvenience at worst 😒
Truls
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Jack Yan (甄爵恩)
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Cabbidges
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Sraars
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Psycodepath
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Umer
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •