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“Nielsen has given everyone who sees accessibility as an unnecessary cost center a way out. Listen, they will say, the experts are telling us that AI is going to solve this, so let’s deprioritize the work now so we don’t duplicate our efforts.”–Matt May

https://buttondown.email/practicaltips/archive/we-need-to-talk-about-jakob/ #a11y


We need to talk about Jakob

Jakob Nielsen woke up one morning last week and chose violence. If you haven’t read his recent post, “Accessibility Has Failed: Try Generative UI =...
buttondown.email
#a11y

Jamie Teh reshared this.

in reply to zeldman

victor tsaran
victor tsaran
• •
@weirdwriter I think that’s a bit of an over-reaction, IMHO!
@Robert Kingett, blind
in reply to victor tsaran

Amanda Carson
Amanda Carson
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@vick21 @weirdwriter I think Matt is correct and this is exactly how this will end up working out in practical terms.
@victor tsaran @Robert Kingett, blind
in reply to Amanda Carson

Jamie Teh
Jamie Teh
• •
@acarson Totally agree. I've already had far too many conversations with well-meaning folks who see AI as the path to better accessibility across the board. Because apparently it's reasonable to pay many people to work on pixel-perfect design for "most users", but "you disabled folks" can just be served by that AI over there, accuracy, efficiency or delightfulness be damned.
@vick21 @zeldman @weirdwriter
@victor tsaran @zeldman @Robert Kingett, blind @Amanda Carson
in reply to Amanda Carson

victor tsaran
victor tsaran
• •
@acarson @jcsteh @weirdwriter Still, comes down to the human factor, and less a technological one, IMHO. AI is here to stay. It will help some, and probably break some! :)
@Jamie Teh @Robert Kingett, blind @Amanda Carson
in reply to victor tsaran

Jamie Teh
Jamie Teh
• •
@vick21 You're entirely correct. I'm not saying that AI is the problem. The problem is that Jakob's article explicitly dehumanises the humans with disabilities. It effectively says: everyone else deserves a hand-crafted experience, but you disabled folks aren't worthy of that. @acarson @zeldman @weirdwriter
@victor tsaran @zeldman @Robert Kingett, blind @Amanda Carson
in reply to Jamie Teh

victor tsaran
victor tsaran
• •
@jcsteh @acarson @weirdwriter Yep, I agreed with that. In my very first post on this topic I started by saying that the article was radical.
@Jamie Teh @Robert Kingett, blind @Amanda Carson
in reply to victor tsaran

Jamie Teh
Jamie Teh
• •
@vick21 Perhaps I (and maybe others) misinterpreted. I thought you were suggesting Mat May's rebuttal was an overreaction. Perhaps you were suggesting Jakob's post was an overreaction (to something)? @acarson @zeldman @weirdwriter
@victor tsaran @zeldman @Robert Kingett, blind @Amanda Carson
in reply to Jamie Teh

Amanda Carson
Amanda Carson
• •
@jcsteh @vick21 @weirdwriter That's what I got as well, that Matt's response was an overreaction, and so that's what I'm disagreeing with.
@Jamie Teh @victor tsaran @Robert Kingett, blind
in reply to Jamie Teh

Amanda Carson
Amanda Carson
• •
@jcsteh @vick21 @weirdwriter Yes. And it's bad enough that we're essentially an afterthought, or at best a catalyst for performative empathy, but to have that coming from someone in the accessibility space is disheartening to put it mildly.
@Jamie Teh @victor tsaran @Robert Kingett, blind
in reply to victor tsaran

Eric Eggert
Eric Eggert
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@vick21 @weirdwriter I’ve been in meetings where these literal words were uttered. “Let’s not do this right now if AI will be good enough soon.”
@victor tsaran @Robert Kingett, blind
in reply to Eric Eggert

victor tsaran
victor tsaran
• •
@yatil @weirdwriter Those same people were probably asking "how many blind people are using the Internet anyway?" So, no, I am not buying the anti-AI rhetoriceither! :)
@Robert Kingett, blind @Eric Eggert
in reply to victor tsaran

Matt May
Matt May
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@vick21 Just saying: if you think what I wrote is “anti-AI rhetoric,” you definitely didn’t read it.
@victor tsaran
in reply to Matt May

victor tsaran
victor tsaran
• •
@mattmay My comment was generic. Sorry, what did you write? Where can I read it? :)
@Matt May
in reply to victor tsaran

Matt May
Matt May
• •
@vick21 It was the thing you said yesterday sounded like an overreaction, that started this thread. https://buttondown.email/practicaltips/archive/we-need-to-talk-about-jakob/

We need to talk about Jakob

Jakob Nielsen woke up one morning last week and chose violence. If you haven’t read his recent post, “Accessibility Has Failed: Try Generative UI =...
buttondown.email
@victor tsaran
in reply to Matt May

victor tsaran
victor tsaran
• •
@mattmay Ah yes, I remember the article now. I still think it’s a bit of an over-reaction, but you and I would probably have to discuss this in person. Too long to write. I completely see where you were coming from though. Sorry if I was too harsh with the word “over-reaction”.
@Matt May
in reply to victor tsaran

Eric Eggert
Eric Eggert
• •

@vick21 @weirdwriter No, actually they are very well aware of how accessibility works. They just see that “AI” can, for example, describe images. So they ask “why should we invest in training people and development time when ‘AI’ might be doing it for us good enough in a similar time frame”.

Companies want to make smart investments. Saving money because tech solves it is seen as smart, even when the outcome is suboptimal.

@victor tsaran @Robert Kingett, blind
in reply to Eric Eggert

victor tsaran
victor tsaran
• •
@yatil @weirdwriter I understand. I have heard similar arguments before, e.g. “why would a blind person care about fashion, cars, etc, and go to those websites?” The subject may have changed, but the underlying attitudes are the same. All I am saying is that these are just excuses 2.0, but in their nature not much different from what we have heard over the years. Not sure if I am expressing my point well though.
@Robert Kingett, blind @Eric Eggert
in reply to victor tsaran

Eric Eggert
Eric Eggert
• •

@vick21 @weirdwriter I don’t know how that relates to the root of the thread where the argument is refuted that individualized “AI”-generated UI means that nobody should invest in an accessible UI very soon.

Sure there are always excuses, but now the excuses are seen as something positive.

@victor tsaran @Robert Kingett, blind
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