My biggest concern is the fact that human-generated audio descriptions cannot handle the scale. So, we need to figure out a solution where TTS descriptions have their place but do not take away from what beautiful things human narration has to offer. I don't think it's one or the other.
@vick21 I think the biggest problem with audio description is a true lack of standards truly optimized for the format. SAP is a workaround that was never really meant for audio description,. The biggest problem is the need for a secondary audio mix in the first place. The open-standazrd xlm/srt format that has been used for captions gets this right, and even better, it's been excluded from most movie/tv drm - so while the video may be drm-laden, the captions sure aren't.
@vick21 So what I think needs to happen is a similar standard for audio description, with individual files with each audio description event that fire at the designated queue times, just like captions. Lines on the queue card, like captions, can have additional parameters, such as how much the orginal audio needs to be ducked during the description, and when it should come back. This way, a heavy-action sequence can have its own ducking rules compared to a light scene.
@jackf723 @vick21 This is how audio description on TV works, at least in most of Europe. That's how it has to be, terrestrial and satellite bandwidth is very limited, and wasting it on tracks that are used very infrequently is just unacceptable. As a broadcaster, you have a choice between overpaying for bandwidth for very little benefit, converting the AD mix to mono at some horrendously low bitrate, or overlaying the low-bitrate, mono AD track on top of normal, high-quality audio. Most broadcasters go for the last option.
@miki Do you have any reading material on how widespread this is in practice? I've never encountered any satellite systems in Europe that actually choose to do mixing at the receiver. Terrestrial, yes, but I only have experience of the UK system. Whereas I've tuned into multiple satellite channels from various countries where the AD is just mixed in at the source. @jackf723 @vick21 @weirdwriter
@miki It does cause bitrate issues, e.g. a number of primetime channels on Sky UK just sound terrible if you opt for AD. Or at least, they did, and I have a hard time imagining they've improved the situation. @jackf723 @vick21 @weirdwriter
@miki A few months back, a British broadcaster trialed a more descriptive, blind-friendly audio stream for a televised rugby match[1]. Of course, they only had the mono, low-bitrate AD channel to use, and presumably couldn't manage the fade values in realtime. So we ended up with US-SAP-style, crappy stadium audio.
@jscholes @jackf723 @vick21 Poland does this somewhat regularly. We get audio description for quite a few football (soccer) matches here. It's quite surprising really, considering the fact that we barely get it for anything else. Soccer is the only thing that gets somewhat regular and consistent AD. The quality is quite crappy, I can't tell you the exact stream parameters but I know who to ask.
@jscholes @miki @jackf723 @vick21 I've never understood the benefit. Commentary during live sport should be more than enough if done properly. having scores on a SAP channel during breaks or whatever maybe, but... meh. maybe just me
@cachondo @jscholes @jackf723 @vick21 hard disagree. The point of commentary is commentary, not describing what's happening on screen in excruciating detail. AD usually goes even further than radio, describing what's going on in the stands, what flags are being waved etc.
@vick21 The biggest favor an open standard can do is it can pull the description files from a centralized, streaming provider-agnostic repository of audio description files. Before watching the movie,, the streaming app could download and cache all the individual descriptions that make up the description track so that they play on queue. And the description database could be semi-wikipedia style, wherein anyone can submit descriptions but they go through a board review.
@jackf723 @vick21 This isn't as easy as you think, movies from different sources may have different lengths, e.g. due to a PAL/NTSC difference, an extra Netflix logo etc.
The only approach which makes sense here is the german Greta system and its derivatives. It's essentially Shazam for movies, you pick a movie you want to watch, give it a short sample, and it syncs your audio description with the movie audio. The added benefit to this is that the AD is completely independent of the movie source, works in cinemas and can be played through your own headphones when watching a movie with sighted friends or family.
victor tsaran
in reply to Robert Kingett backup • • •Jack-Frostodon
in reply to victor tsaran • • •Jack-Frostodon
in reply to Jack-Frostodon • • •Mikołaj Hołysz
in reply to Jack-Frostodon • • •James Scholes
in reply to Mikołaj Hołysz • • •Mikołaj Hołysz
in reply to James Scholes • • •James Scholes
in reply to Mikołaj Hołysz • • •James Scholes
in reply to James Scholes • • •@miki A few months back, a British broadcaster trialed a more descriptive, blind-friendly audio stream for a televised rugby match[1]. Of course, they only had the mono, low-bitrate AD channel to use, and presumably couldn't manage the fade values in realtime. So we ended up with US-SAP-style, crappy stadium audio.
[1] itvmedia.co.uk/news-and-resour…
@jackf723 @vick21 @weirdwriter
Guinness and ITV make sporting history by trialling live descriptive audio commentary for the Guinness Six Nations
ITV MediaMikołaj Hołysz
in reply to James Scholes • • •Sean Randall
in reply to James Scholes • • •Mikołaj Hołysz
in reply to Sean Randall • • •Jack-Frostodon
in reply to Jack-Frostodon • • •Mikołaj Hołysz
in reply to Jack-Frostodon • • •@jackf723 @vick21 This isn't as easy as you think, movies from different sources may have different lengths, e.g. due to a PAL/NTSC difference, an extra Netflix logo etc.
The only approach which makes sense here is the german Greta system and its derivatives. It's essentially Shazam for movies, you pick a movie you want to watch, give it a short sample, and it syncs your audio description with the movie audio. The added benefit to this is that the AD is completely independent of the movie source, works in cinemas and can be played through your own headphones when watching a movie with sighted friends or family.
Jack-Frostodon
in reply to Mikołaj Hołysz • • •