CVSS is dead to us
daniel.haxx.se/blog/2025/01/23…
#curl
CVSS is dead to us
CVSS is short for Common Vulnerability Scoring System and is according to Wikipedia a technical standard for assessing the severity of vulnerabilities in computing systems.daniel.haxx.se
topi
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •daniel:// stenberg://
in reply to topi • • •topi
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •faker
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •> Every CVE filed to MITRE is supposed to have a CVSS score set.
That's odd. I requested CVEs through them (cveform.mitre.org/), there is no field to provide a CVSS score.
Not sure if that makes it better or worse. Someone else without a clue of the system rates it, or the researcher initially rates it a higher to make it "more important"? Both terrible choices.
CVE - Common Vulnerabilities and Exposures (CVE)
cveform.mitre.orgWinni Neessen
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Peter Bindels
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •To me it seems like CVSS is trying to do a dozen things at the same time, and is being potentially provided by multiple groups with conflicting ideas on what it should be based on what thing they're trying to make it do, and their own personal goals (explicit or implicit). There's no way that could ever work.
Heck, even simple risk assessment is two-dimensional - how likely is the risk, and how big is the impact when it happens. This is trying to flatten that, plus many more properties, into a single axis, and of course it's useless.
It would be much better if the CVSS was just dropped wholesale, and replaced with scores that have a relevant target. At the very least we can have the two axes that normal risk assessment puts on it, which would solve most of the CVSS sillyness already. Add a third axis / score for user involvement, too, since a bug that can be triggered without users acting is much worse than one a user has to choose to run.
For example, your 9.8 "integer overflow could be abused" from a year ago would be marked as "impact minimal", "user invoked", "likelyhood certain". Maybe even give a somewhat formatted field to indicate which platforms are affected, so things like vulnerability scanners can check if their platform is even listed in the first place. Critical Windows vulnerability that does not exist on Macs should not give rise to a forced update.
Robbert
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Raito Bezarius
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •the more I think and interact about the CVE ecosystem and the more I think we should have our own alternative and ecosystem that explicitly does not live in their taxonomy
Figure out the open source cooperation way of managing sec vulns and just make it so much better that the corporate world has to negotiate with us and we cease to be a cog
Rory McCune
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •One approach you could take, which doesn't involve fictional CVSS scores but does avoid the risk of CISA (or others) causing you this kind of problem, would be to have a policy of using the mid-point of the severity range for each of your 4 severity bandings as the score.
That gives people a good idea of what the severity is, and avoids the problem you had here.
daniel:// stenberg://
in reply to Rory McCune • • •Rory McCune
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Bruno
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •tmaher
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Clemens
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Máňa Zalabák
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Other than that, for me, it doesn't really have much difference without it, and I know better now not to focus on the score
Ela
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •The sad thing is: it could be a good system if used properly. It captures a lot of useful properties in the vector, especially when you go beyond the base score and include temporal and environmental score.
In my fever dreams, I'm imagining a system that captures my overall system architecture including security requirements, security boundaries, etc., so when a CVE is coming in, it automatically calculates an environmental score, based e.g. on "that's a local vuln, hard ro exploit, on an appliance that doesn't really have any internal security boundaries anyways, on a network physically protected and behind seven firewalls, get lost" or "unauthenticated remote code execution in all configurations on a service handling valuable data, actually exposed to the Internet, actively exploited, all hands on deck NOW".
So from a vulnerability information consumer point of view, data points like exploitability, authenticated vs. unauthenticated, local or remote, actually confirmed by a person with an understanding of the code,make a huge difference, and it would be good to have them in machine readable format. Of course, a 9.8 slapped on by some analyst who doesn't even bother to look at the code doesn't help anyone.
Awkward Turing
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Jim Fuller
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •daniel:// stenberg://
in reply to Jim Fuller • • •daniel:// stenberg://
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •CVSS Is Dead to Us | Hacker News
news.ycombinator.comRichard Levitte
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •daniel:// stenberg://
in reply to Richard Levitte • • •Richard Levitte
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Uhmmmm... so, make yourself a CVE authority on your stuff [effectively blocking anyone else from publishing anything on your stuff), and do nothing else (i.e. no CVE published).
Of course, it's a bit late for #curl, but you know, other projects?
(and yes, it's naughty. I'm in a naughty mood, yeah?)
daniel:// stenberg://
in reply to Richard Levitte • • •Richard Levitte
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •London Eastfield 🇵🇸
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Really good article. My experience with "security experts" is that most actually have very limited knowledge in the field. And lack critical thinking. This leads to an almost blind trust in these tools that spit out reports on CVSS scores that can easily be exported to nice looking spreadsheets.
Unfortunately, those tend to be taken as gospel by management. Because management never have a clue about anything.
#security #infosec
Fabian ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Thats why we (pentest company) do our own risk calculation method which actually includes likelihood and takes into account our customers setup, environment, etc.
We only add cvss scores if the customer explicitly asks for it.
Serge Matveenko ♻️☮️Ⓐ
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •This allows arguing for a better system while defending users from misinformation?
daniel:// stenberg://
in reply to Serge Matveenko ♻️☮️Ⓐ • • •Serge Matveenko ♻️☮️Ⓐ
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •AFAIU end users (like vulnerability scanners) rely on LOW/HIGH/CRITICAL/... scale anyway. So, this number is just an intermediate most of the time between curl's scale and scanner's scale that use the same system.
daniel:// stenberg://
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •daniel:// stenberg://
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •cURL Project and Go Security Teams Reject CVSS as Broken - S...
SocketStefan Eissing
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •daniel:// stenberg://
in reply to Stefan Eissing • • •Demiguise 🇮🇱
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •