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Do you trust #Microsoft? Because #Outlook has a real scare for you. 😱

Read more on this 🚩 breaking story! 👇

Emails, Contacts, and Passwords - Oh My! New Outlook Overshares with Microsoft:
https://tuta.com/blog/outlook-shares-passwords-with-microsoft

in reply to Tuta

Typo in the article - "To teh contrary: it makes things worse."
in reply to Tuta

Nobody could have predicted that Microsoft, the malaria people (Gates foundation), would do this evil act.
This entry was edited (5 months ago)
in reply to Tuta

No, I don't trust Microsoft at all. So I don't use it.
in reply to Tuta

That's the reason I don't use Microsoft Windows since long time ago , I think approximately 15 years.

Since I switched to Linux I'm the happiest person on earth.

in reply to Tuta

Why am I not surprised that no one proof-read teh article before it went live?

Sadly, that’s Tuta all over… rushing stuff out.

in reply to Tuta

Is this just the thing where it syncs your settings to the cloud so you can (relatively) seamlessly move between multiple computers? If so I don't see any concern here if you've already decided to use that feature.
in reply to Tuta

How many times does it need to be encrypted before you think it is safe? The screenshot clearly shows a connection to HTTPS at outlook.com. So when you are intercepting HTTPS requests on your own computer, yes, you can see the clear text. Nobody expects the data inside the TLS connection to be encrypted more. So it’s encrypted once. How many more times does it need to be encrypted?

This article completely fails to answer the question “what did we expect?” And what I mean by that is “assume you were going to give a company your imap credentials so it can synchronise your email to the cloud. What would be the right way to do that?” The answer “don’t do that” isn’t a valid answer.

in reply to Paco Hope

@paco TLS is just a tunnel. The data gets transmitted to Microsoft and is fully accessible to them. It's like storing your sensitive passwords on someone else's computer - in this case with hundreds of employees potentially having access to your data...
in reply to Tuta

I understand. What do you think your browser does with your user name and password when you login to every web site in the world? It transmits that data to the web site in EXACTLY the same way.

My point is this: assume the end user WANTS this feature. They WANT Microsoft’s cloud service to synchronise that IMAP email to the service. What should be done differently?

IMAP is a pretty old protocol. It authenticates by username and password. There isn’t a way, that I’m aware of, to get email data out of a IMAP service without first logging in.

So, the argument you’re making seems to have nothing to do with this email service. You appear to make the argument that nobody should ever give Microsoft any passwords because you don’t trust them to control access to it.

If we focus on an email sync service, it MUST work this way. We can argue whether email sync services should ever exist. Whether you should ever give anyone your email password. But IF you’re going to let service A read your imap email from service B, you are going to give your service B password to service A and service A is going to use it. That’s how that is going to work.

in reply to Paco Hope

@paco No, that is not correct. When you use Tutanota only the hash of your password is transmitted to our server and the server can not derive the real password from the hash - but still log you in. We would never transmit the real password, that's an absolute no go in terms of security. Read more on this here: https://tuta.com/security
in reply to Tuta

Right. What is the point that the article is trying to make?

It seems like nobody should send any data to Microsoft under any circumstances. Because TLS is how we do that and apparently that's not good enough. The "terrifying screenshot" (from the article) is irrelevant. The screenshot shows that MS does exactly what they say they do.

The article says "the movement of this data will of course be securely encrypted right...? Not quite". That "Not quite" is unreasonable.

The data is being transmitted to Microsoft using TLS—the same TLS that Tuta uses in HTTPS and MTA-STS. If TLS protects data when Tuta uses it, then TLS protects data when Microsoft uses it. You can't brag about Tuta using TLS everywhere, then say that data protected by TLS isn't protected enough when Microsoft does it.

The article never mentions that Tuta has a way to log you into your email account without transmitting a password. (It simply says Tuta doesn't have access to your credentials). Five paragraphs about AT&T and NSA and GDPR and HIPAA and other stuff, but nothing says Tuta can do this same job more securely. I would have been far more impressed with a screenshot of the equivalent authentication messages between the Tuta client and Tuta server, showing how Tuta does it without sending your password over a TLS connection.

Not to mention the scary quotation "no reasonable expectation of privacy" that is attributed to absolutely no one and has no reference or links at all.

Microsoft sends passwords around. Tuta doesn't. That's a point the article could make clearly without dragging in all these superfluous concepts.

in reply to Tuta

thanks for bringing this to my attention. I've been using Tuta for years but I had an old Microsoft account I used as a trash email when I didn't want to give my Tuta out. Just deleted the Microsoft account, thanks for the insights.