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@ebassi #Gtk troubles. Following toshiocp.github.io/Gtk4-tutori…. Window of sec 5, messes up all my xterms windows: flickering by frantic scrolling, repeated lines and chars. Closing the gtk4-window restores all to normal. On debian-sid w/ mate. After successless search for help, I found a link "contact" on gtk.org leading nowhere. No user-group, no email-list. I did find your Mastodon ID and installed it. Now I dare to ask: "Where does a stuck newby go with gtk4?"
#gtk @Emmanuele Bassi
in reply to ternaryd

Emmanuele Bassi
Emmanuele Bassi
• •

I recommend using Discourse: discourse.gnome.org/tag/gtk —which is linked on the website, on the project's GitLab, and in the project docs. We haven't used mailing lists in five years.

You'll have to specify which version of GTK you're using; which GPU; which GL/Vulkan driver; how you're launching the example; what kind of errors you're getting.

The toshiocp tutorial isn't written by GTK developers, so you may also want to ask the author.

in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

ternaryd
ternaryd
• •
dpkg says, it's 4.14.4+ds-8. lshw says it's GM107 (GeForce 940MX). The driver is the official nVidia driver. I'm using a clean debian-sid. the only thing tainting the kernel ist nvidia. I made an update (kernel 6.10.9) and rebooted the system, and tested again before writing my previsous message. lanch from terminal. Couldn't find contact info for that tutorial, but code is only 55 lines; you probl. would consider it simple.
in reply to ternaryd

Emmanuele Bassi
Emmanuele Bassi
• •
the nvidia driver for old GPUs is known for having issues; you may want to look at this issue and try the various environment variables to see if it can be worked around: gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gtk/-/i…
in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

ternaryd
ternaryd
• •
Is it that the GPU is too old (as you seem to say) or that the driver is too old (as is said in that link)? as I said before, I had an update today so the driver shouldn't be old. nVidia still seems to support this GPU officially. is this "fake news" from nVidia? This also would mean, that not only Gtk is affected but also everything else, right? Shouldn't I have noticed the problem earlier? Sorry for the many questions.
in reply to ternaryd

Emmanuele Bassi
Emmanuele Bassi
• •
the GPU is old, and the driver is also old, in the sense that it doesn't get anything more than minimal fixes. GTK4 uses recent GL/GLES/Vulkan API, and that requires a driver that provides that functionality. If the driver doesn't, or it's buggy and won't see any fix, then there's not much GTK can do about it.
in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

ternaryd
ternaryd
• •
forgot to mention: I also use darktable and haven't experienced any troubles. But then, that's gtk3 only. might this be relevant?
in reply to ternaryd

Emmanuele Bassi
Emmanuele Bassi
• •
no, GTK3 is irrelevant. GTK3 uses the CPU to render, whereas GTK4 uses the GPU.
in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

ternaryd
ternaryd
• •
Thanks for the clarification. I tried: GSK_RENDERER=gl. This slows down things noticeable, but doesn't make the problem go away. GDK_DISABLE=gles-api doesn't slow down things. At first it seemed to work, but after a minute or two, the problem showed again. Couldn't try the third suggestions, as I don't know how to tell the driver that, and can't think of anything looking for in a search engine.
in reply to ternaryd

Emmanuele Bassi
Emmanuele Bassi
• •
I would strongly suggest you change your GPU; another option is to use `GSK_RENDERER=cairo`, but that's just going to be a workaround.
in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

ternaryd
ternaryd
• •
Thanks. Could you recommend a new GPU with similar characteristics? I need at least 2 connectors for DP; for the third monitor I'm using HDMI, not sure if it would accept DP also (it's a bit difficult to reach the backside).
in reply to ternaryd

Emmanuele Bassi
Emmanuele Bassi
• •
any higher end AMD should be perfectly fine; even the discrete Intel ARC GPU should be okay.
in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

Emmanuele Bassi
Emmanuele Bassi
• •

to be clear: you don't need a *powerful* GPU, merely a recent one with decently supported drivers (preferably open source).

Personally, I have an AMD Radeon RX 6800 XT, and it's more than enough for GTK4 (using and developing).

in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

ternaryd
ternaryd
• •
can I assume that it is better than what I had for being so much newer? in terms of performance? I'm (trying) to use the 10bit colors in darktable
in reply to ternaryd

Emmanuele Bassi
Emmanuele Bassi
• •
it's definitely a lot better than an nvidia 940; you can go and look at the specs when shopping around. You basically need something with a driver that supports GL 4.6+ / GLES 3.0 / Vulkan 1.3.
in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

ternaryd
ternaryd
• •
thanks to confirm this. and if i'm lucky, it'll be cheaper than what I paid for the envidia. and of course, I do prefere open source, hoping to get rid of tainting my kernel. If I change back to AMD, is there some driver I need to install or would that be suppored directly by X?
in reply to ternaryd

Emmanuele Bassi
Emmanuele Bassi
• •

the drivers are supported by Mesa and X11.

Note: X11 is considered legacy, at this point; it's supported, but all the work in the graphics stack (kernel, Mesa, display servers, compositors, toolkits) is geared towards Wayland.

in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

ternaryd
ternaryd
• •
I have no idea which one is installed. What is default in debian? Should I change to wayland?
in reply to ternaryd

Emmanuele Bassi
Emmanuele Bassi
• •
if you're Mate, then you're using X11 as far as I know. I also don't use Debian, at the moment. Sorry, I can't answer questions related to things I don't use.
in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

ternaryd
ternaryd
• •
I understand. sorry. But if I change to wayland and there is no mate, the alternative is back to gnome? I started to hate gnome when it started to feel like windows.
in reply to ternaryd

Emmanuele Bassi
Emmanuele Bassi
• •
that's probably the first time I heard somebody compare GNOME to Windows, to be honest. Anyway: you have the option of KDE, GNOME, or any other Wayland compositor, like Sway. Otherwise, you'll end up with X11 until Mate and Xfce switch over.
in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

ternaryd
ternaryd
• •
sorry. I'm an old man. most of my windows are Xterm with Emacs. I'm a C-programmer (not GUI) and have never used any ID or other graphic environment for that. I have lots of windows open, while gnome will try to use all my screen for just one. Also, Gnome software tries to solve everything while Unix just one, being able to combine. For instance color management. The prime task is poorly solved, but there are tons of other bells and wistles.
in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

ternaryd
ternaryd
• •
I hope, I didn't offend you. If so, I appologize. Anyway thanks for your kind help.
in reply to ternaryd

Emmanuele Bassi
Emmanuele Bassi
• •
you didn't offend me; I didn't have anything to add or reply. I don't go around converting people, and I don't have a quota of souls to bring aboard the GNOME spaceship 😉
in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

ternaryd
ternaryd
• •
Well, that's good to know. But the migration from gtk2 to gtk3 kicked out a lot of people, me being one of them. The KDE camp appreciated that (I wouldn't join them, because C++ is too modern for me). I also don't plan to stay with Gtk, just need to build a simple, temporary tool, which will get deleted once the job is done.
in reply to ternaryd

Emmanuele Bassi
Emmanuele Bassi
• •
I don’t understand why you feel the need to vent about stuff that happened nearly 15 years ago, about GTK3, an API breakage that took two years of work in the open to be complete; and about GTK2, a version that was EOL’d four years ago. The people “left behind” would have not contributed to the ecosystem anyway, as they clearly consider GTK a black box to consume instead of a project to contribute to.
in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

Emmanuele Bassi
Emmanuele Bassi
• •
anyway, the discussion is over from my side; happy to have helped, and good luck with your experiments. Make sure to contribute to whatever project you’re going to end up with.
in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

ternaryd
ternaryd
• •
I really tried to get onto gitlab, but after two attempts to verify my email account, I've been blocked. Obviously, they don't love my tor browser. It wasn't an important issue anyway.
in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

ternaryd
ternaryd
• •
just FYI: In docs.gtk.org/gdk4/method.Surfa…, example-3, uses a deprecated function. gdksurface.h is not helpful, neither is docs.gtk.org/gdk4/method.Surfa… saying "Create a suitable cairo image surface yourself.", as a beginner doesn't know, how to do that. I don't need an answer to that, as I don't plan to write a drawing program.
in reply to ternaryd

Emmanuele Bassi
Emmanuele Bassi
• •
please, open issues: Mastodon is not a bug tracker, and I am not the only GTK developer.
in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

ternaryd
ternaryd
• •
You took the time to answer my questions, so I'll take the time to try to find out, how to open an issue. BTW, I've ordered an AMD RX 7800 XT, that seemed to be at an offer. Hope that will hold a while…
in reply to Emmanuele Bassi

ternaryd
ternaryd
• •
90% of my work is office style, but 10% is image edition (I'm an amateur photographer).
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