BlueSky is cosplaying #decentralization
rys.io/en/167.html
> Almost exactly six months after #Twitter got taken over by a petulant edge lord, people seem to be done with grieving the communities this disrupted and connections they lost, and are ready, eager even, to jump head-first into another toxic relationship. This time with BlueSky.
tl;dr:
- #BlueSky seems designed to get secondarily centralized in the "reach" layer (as they call it)
- moderation is an afterthought
- Jack Dorsey
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BlueSky is cosplaying decentralization
Almost exactly six months after Twitter got taken over by a petulant edge lord, people seem to be done with grieving the communities this disrupted and connections they lost, and are ready, eager evenSongs on the Security of Networks
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modulux
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to modulux • • •I think the politics of people creating a given tool are crucial information when trying to understand the tool and predict what the tool is built for and how it's going to be used. Whom will it benefit, who will wield power in it, and so on.
So it is crucial to understand that Dorsey and Musk are basically the same breed of Silicon Valley techbro hypercapitalist.
What Musk did to Twitter, someone will do to BlueSky, as IMVHO it's been designed to allow for that to happen.
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •I am not saying we should not discuss certain features of BlueSky. Sure, we should have a bit better account migration on fedi, for example.
But my blogpost is not about feature comparison. My blogpost is about how BlueSky is cosplaying decentralization to trick people into another roach motel.
modulux
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to modulux • • •sure. And if somebody writes a technical deep-dive comparison, I will gladly read it.
Dorsey might or might not be directly involved. The connection is still informative as to possible — let's say — philosophical underpinnings of BlueSky. And it meshes well with available protocol documentation.
BlueSky could be different, of course. And if I start seeing signs of that, I will happily eat my words. But we've all been tricked too many times already to give it the benefit of the doubt.
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •> #BlueSky’s decentralization is a similar kind of decentralization as with cryptocurrencies: sure, you can run your own node (in BS case: “personal data servers”), but that does not give you basically any meaningful agency in the system.
(...)
> The rule of thumb with search and recommendation algorithms is: the bigger, the better. The more data you have and the more compute you get to throw at it, the better your recommendations will be. So it’s a winner-takes-all system.
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Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •> Of course, fedi could also have some search and discovery algorithms built on top. Operators of such algorithms (there had been a few attempts already) would also benefit from being first and going big.
> But their potential power is balanced by the power fedi instance admins and moderators have (blocking and defederating) and by the fact that fedi is perfectly usable without such algorithms. And by strong hostility of a lot of people using fedi towards non-consensual indexing.
#BlueSky
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Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •> In a pretty meaningful way, “speech and reach” is the model of #Twitter today. You just don’t get to choose your recommendation/discovery algorithm.
(…)
> The only way to effectively fight harassment in a social network is effective, contextual moderation. The Fediverse showed that having communities, which embody that context and whose admins and moderators focus on protecting their members, is pretty damn effective here. This is exactly what BS is not doing.
#BlueSky
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Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •> In other words, “neutrality” and “speech” and “voice” and “protection from bans” is mentioned right there, front and center, in #BlueSky’s overview and FAQ. At the same time moderation and anti-harassment features are, at best, an afterthought.
(…)
> Of course the sad reality is that people will buy the hype, build communities under the everloving watchful eye of Jack “Musk is the singular solution I trust, likes are superficial if not paid for” Dorsey.
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Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •> And then do a surprised picachu face when inevitably some surveillance capitalist robber baron enshittifies it to a point of complete unusefulness.
> It fascinates me how quickly people forget lessons from the whole Twitter kerfuffle, and just fall for another Silicon Valley silly con. Without even skipping a beat.
#BlueSky
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Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •More in-depth dive obviously in the blogpost:
rys.io/en/167.html
Shout out to @tomasino, @mekkaokereke, and @dr2chase, whom I mention directly in that blogpost. And to everyone who offered their thoughts on ATproto in this thread:
mastodon.laurenweinstein.org/@…
If you want an even deeper (if a bit chaotic) dive, go read that thread.
BlueSky is cosplaying decentralization
Songs on the Security of NetworksElijah
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •so I made a mastodon account to post this, idk if you mentioned this, but bluesky is not federated.
I set up a bluesky "pds" and tested it in the bluesky app. you can't interact with any other pds, like bluesky.social. the jwt token (which you need) just doesn't work for viewing bluesky.social profiles or interacting.
here's me trying to load Henry Pickavet's did profile on bluesky from another instance
Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦
in reply to Elijah • • •oh this is super-interesting.
So you created a fresh new PDS and you cannot federate with the main bluesky.social PDS?
Huh, first of all, thank you for testing it out and reporting in! Secondly, can you go into a bit more detail why the JWT does not work for viewing bluesky.social profiles? :blobcateyes:
Elijah
in reply to Michał "rysiek" Woźniak · 🇺🇦 • • •yeah, so when you authenticate with pds, it uses jwt (you can see that here in this todo atproto.com/specs/atp#authenti…). you can't use that token to view another user's profile, which ig is fine but the profile doesn't replicate. there's just no way to get an actor (user) in bluesky.
mastodon has an endpoint, /api/v1/accounts/lookup, that gets an Account from a webfinger address (like @evalprime). that doesn't exist in bluesky from what I can see. that endpoint runs on the instance itself
ATP | AT Protocol
atproto.comElijah
in reply to Elijah • • •Elijah
in reply to Elijah • • •what it seems like is that because bsky.social is supposed to be private accessing actors from there is impossible, but accessing any pds' profiles needs a jwt token that is exclusive to that instance by default. so basically it's impossible to replicate an actor into your own pds' db anyway.
all of this is kind of fine but they claim it's federated when it's not.
Elijah
in reply to Elijah • • •I patched my pds to not require a jwt token to view profiles but even with that, there's just no way for a pds to get another pds actor's info right now.
also interesting: the frontend will not even use the app.bsky.actor.getProfile endpoint unless you're logged in. meaning that staging.bsky.app/profile/elija… will still require you to log in/sign up
Bluesky
staging.bsky.appElijah
in reply to Elijah • • •Elijah
in reply to Elijah • • •GitHub - bluesky-social/atproto: Social networking technology created by Bluesky
GitHub