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Congrats to @townsxyz@twitter.com for launching. Great to see Dendrite and Matrix in the wild, but unfortunate to see it branded as “Towns Protocol” with zero reference to Matrix: towns.com/faq/ Guess it’s time to consider shifting impls to AGPL in the face of proprietary forks.
in reply to The Matrix.org Foundation

"Towns encryption is based on the Olm and Megolm protocols used in the Matrix ecosystem. During the alpha phase of our product, a modified Matrix server provides the backend that allows Towns users to connect with one another."
herenotthere.github.io/Docs/do…
in reply to KitKat

@KitKat well, that at least confirms it’s matrix & dendrite. meanwhile: google.com/search?q=site:towns… yields nil; likewise techcrunch.com/2023/02/23/town…. Obviously it’s within the terms of the license to do this; but hardly in the spirit. The most charitable interpretation is that they are planning to move away…
in reply to The Matrix.org Foundation

@KitKat "may look familiar...like Discord!"

no, it looks literally like Element, because it _is_ Element.

in reply to The Matrix.org Foundation

@KitKat the journo behind that article should look at this thread @Tayhatmaker - it would be useful to know if they ever briefed them that it was just a matrix/element fork or if they totally omitted that important fact…
in reply to KitKat

@KitKat I would think it would be on their site as well honestly. I hope they are supporting matrix in some way. Sad to see
in reply to Robert Dalton

@robertdalton @KitKat nothing to date. Perhaps we should have made given the first bullet a slide of its own at FOSDEM.
in reply to The Matrix.org Foundation

cryptocurrency crap

Of course it's the crypto people again...

Also is it me or are they getting lazier over time, because it used to be "hey, check out this crypto crap we made, it's a great investment totally!!!!", but now it's "don't worry, we'll decentralize over time, we'll fake it until we make it, give us crypto..."

in reply to The Matrix.org Foundation

AGPL would be a great choice for server impls. GPL would be better for complete clients, but I expect most of the non-UI/UX client work to be in matrix-rust-sdk going forward.
in reply to The Matrix.org Foundation

I think using the *A*GPL for reference server-side implementations would be pretty much needed to avoid ending up like XMPP with a bunch of proprietary forks around(like Whatsapp's fork of ejabberd)
in reply to LoaD Accumulator

@devhonk originally we picked Apache to be as generous as possible, but given we’re in a position where the better the protocol gets, the less $ there is to fund folks to work on the core protocol (cf matrix.org/blog/2022/12/25/the…) that looks increasingly like an error. No good deed goes unpunished, as the saying goes.
in reply to The Matrix.org Foundation

Please just move on with AGPL for Dendrite, while it's relatively young project - as compared to Synapse, anyway. Server implementations need to be more transparent and gather a supporting framework, and being stuck with Apache is kinda missing out on that front.

@devhonk

in reply to The Matrix.org Foundation

@devhonk
Unfortunately going with "permissive" license is not really being generous: it is giving legal justification to others to use your code to exploit users.

As I personally look at Free Software from the "consumer protection" angle, I don't think the so-called "permissive" licenses are ever a good idea.

#FreeSoftware #SoftwareFreedom #FOSS

in reply to The Matrix.org Foundation

i would vote for AGPL too. and btw. is it the same with these people: blackpin.app/ ?
in reply to ralf tauscher

@stereo
Hi,
mein technisches English ist zu schlecht.
Wo genau liegt das Problem?

Hatte es so verstanden, dass TownsProtocol auf Ihrer Seite nicht erwähnt, dass es das Matrix Protokoll ist?
BlackPin erwähnt dies dagegen in Ihren Texten.

Oder geht es darum, dass diese Anbieter Matrix nicht finanziell und mit Feedback unterstützen?

in reply to The Matrix.org Foundation

Anecdotally from having seen similar experiences with people using Mastodon like this -- AGPL doesn't STOP people from doing this (cf. Hiveway), but it does make doing it more frustrating for them and more funny for the rest if us (cf. TheJester's thing).

So I'm for it.

in reply to The Matrix.org Foundation

The hell is their contribution to the protocol again to make such a claim?!
in reply to The Matrix.org Foundation

I know at least one major company has a no-AGPL policy, and probably any company with public Internet services. So using an AGPL effectively limits use to non-commercial users (hobbyists.)
Unknown parent

The Matrix.org Foundation
@menturion Dendrite and Synapse are maintained and published by the Matrix Foundation, which is currently at serious funding risk thanks to folks commercially deploying Matrix without financially supporting the Foundation. So if a shift to AGPL can provide a route to encourage commercial deployments to donate, we have no choice but consider it. It’s nothing to do with New Vector (aka Element).
in reply to The Matrix.org Foundation

Not sure I follow. Under the Apache license they need to 1) Give their users the license and 2) Show any Notice that you include (which would provide attribution)
in reply to The Matrix.org Foundation

This could be claiming work of matrix authors as their own:
"Who is behind Towns?

The Towns protocol and app are the work of the members of HNT Labs. HNT is a small group of world-class engineers and product people that believe..."

which nothing in Apache license would allow.
Moral rights violations would still need to be resolved on the relevant court.

OTOH herenotthere.github.io/Docs/do… does mention "During the alpha phase of our product, a modified Matrix server provides the backend"