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I hate modern frontend with its #JavaScript frameworks zoo, with people not even wanting to learn semantic #HTML and making their disgusting design with two tags, <div> and <span>, like uneducated parrots knowing only two words. I totally understand why things like Turbo, Stimulus and HTMX exist, I wish they were more spread in the web though.
Oh yeah, and I want a #backend job.
#html #javascript #backend
in reply to André Polykanine

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Kirill

256%. Зоопарк не то слово. Однажды пришлось по работе залезть во фронтендовый клиент, что-то подправить в сервисной логике. То было незабываемо - React с кучей всего вокруг, бардак просто ёбаный пиздец. А изучить что-то кроме пары тегов - ты шо, в мире JS так нельзя, надо тащить библиотеку для любого чиха и пусть оно само. В зависимостях для Angular видел модуль, то громко сказано, аж на целых 36 что ли строк. Дожили до того что простейший сайт без всего этого хлама не могут сделать.
in reply to aaron

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André Polykanine

@fireborn @FreakyFwoof @svenja Okay, I'll elaborate. In that file you also have magic arrays that would add HTML, like:
html.push('<div>...');
Also, there is a PHP file that contains 12 thousand lines (I'm not making it up!) where you also have HTML and JS, right in that file, with echo of course.
And I'm supposed to understand all of that in a week and add a feature.
Oh, and of course, what you get is absolutely not accessible, or almost.
@aaron @Andre Louis @Svenja
in reply to Mikołaj Hołysz

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André Polykanine

@miki @fireborn @FreakyFwoof @svenja It's not PHP's fault, or not all of that. It's due to the fact that like twenty years ago there were lots of crappy courses à la "Create your website in sixty minutes" that so-called taught PHP without teaching real programming. Hence hideous functions to process dates, and so on, and so forth. Nowadays, when PHP 7, then PHP 8 came, it is a decent strongly-typed beautiful language, with its drawbacks, but still.
@Mikołaj Hołysz @aaron @Andre Louis @Svenja
in reply to André Polykanine

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Mikołaj Hołysz

@fireborn @FreakyFwoof @svenja I'm not saying there's no good PHP code out there. All I'm saying that if you hear a dev complain about something like "a 1000 line function 14 levels deep that synchronously sends over a hundred emails during the processing of a HTTP request" (true story BTW), it is very, very likely to be PHP.
@aaron @Andre Louis @Svenja
in reply to André Polykanine

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Klaus Stein

Fully agree.

If you are programming a highly interactive web app (e.g. an interactive map or a game) I am completely fine with using JS. But most webpages can be very nicely usable without JS¹ with properly used html and css (and much faster too!).

And: a web page should not use _any_ CPU, if it is just open and I don't interact with it at all.

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¹or a few bits of optional one

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