James Scholes

4 months ago

James Scholes
4 months ago

#NVDA users: do you mostly browse the web with screen layout on or off?

On (18%, 6 votes)
Off (46%, 15 votes)
I don't know what screen layout is or how to check (34%, 11 votes)

32 voters. Poll end: 4 months ago

#nvda

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in reply to James Scholes

Cleverson

in reply to James Scholes 4 months ago

@matt On.

@Matt Campbell

in reply to James Scholes

NV Access

in reply to James Scholes 4 months ago

So, if nothing else, I now have at least one topic for the next In-Process: What is screen layout?

And for those not sure of what it is, here is the section in the User Guide: download.nvaccess.org/document…

NVDA 2024.4.2 User Guide

^{download.nvaccess.org}

in reply to NV Access

Kara Goldfinch

in reply to NV Access 4 months ago

@NVAccess It's also covered in the JAWS to NVDA guide. ;)

@NV Access

in reply to NV Access

@NVAccess I wonder if there are some features like this one where the default setting should be changed for new installations? Trying to set laptop layout automatically comes to mind as well, but some things have changed since 2007.

@NV Access

in reply to Jage

NV Access

in reply to Jage 4 months ago

@Jage Desktop / Laptop keyboard layout largely depends on both personal preference, and what type of keyboard you have. These days there are laptops with full size keyboards, and external keyboards without a number pad, so it would be hard to try to guess what would be best - hence why it is one of the things we ask during a new install.

@Jage

in reply to NV Access

James Scholes

in reply to NV Access 4 months ago

@NVAccess There are definitely many permutations. For instance I use a full size keyboard with a numpad and still opt for laptop layout in NVDA.

I suppose usage statistics could come into it though. If 90 percent of users were switching to laptop, 98 percent enabling the caps lock as a modifier, and 84 percent turning off screen layout, those would be pretty strong numbers that I just made up out of nowhere. @Jage

@NV Access @Jage

in reply to James Scholes

Jamie Teh

in reply to James Scholes 4 months ago

@NVAccess @Jage I used to be one of these strange people that used desktop layout even on a laptop without a num pad, back in the days when most laptops let you use num pad keys (even with num lock off) by using the FN key. These days, most laptops seem to have dropped support for this, so I switched to laptop layout a few years ago and now I tend to think that way even when I'm using a desktop keyboard.

@NV Access @Jage

in reply to Jamie Teh

Jage

in reply to Jamie Teh 4 months ago

@jcsteh @NVAccess Ya perhaps laptop layout was not the best example. But I wonder what are the most common settings that a new user who knows a tiny bit would change.

@NV Access @Jamie Teh

in reply to Jage

Jamie Teh

in reply to Jage 4 months ago

@NVAccess @Jage Defaults have been changed in the past. For example, the default synth was changed to OneCore. But yeah, I think real usage statistics is the real path forward if defaults like this are to be changed. Of course, then there's the question of priority, developer time and relative impact...

@NV Access @Jage

in reply to Jamie Teh

valiant8086

in reply to Jamie Teh 4 months ago

@jcsteh @NVAccess @Jage I always default to laptop layout. I think a few years ago I tried to push an idea to set it as default for NVDA but as I recall there were issues with laptop layout for international users who pushed back and so it was left as is except for adding easy setting for it in future startup screen.

@NV Access @Jamie Teh @Jage

in reply to valiant8086

Jamie Teh

in reply to valiant8086 4 months ago

@valiant8086 @NVAccess @Jage The original laptop layout was also much different, simulating the num pad on letter keys rather than using the arrow keys. I can't remember when we redesigned it, but that was probably a tricky change to socialise.

@NV Access @Jage @valiant8086

in reply to James Scholes

NV Access

in reply to James Scholes 4 months ago

@Jage Absolutely. I'm not sure it's too far one way for any particular settings, and there are quite a lot which many people have firm views one way or the other about. But could be worth us looking into more statistics gathering on

@Jage

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Peter Vágner

Unknown parent 4 months ago

@Sean Randall @NV Access @Kara Goldfinch @James Scholes I guess switching it off might affect performance and it reflows the document not respecting how the author has designed it. I am using the default setting i.e. browsing with screen layout turned on.

@NV Access @James Scholes @Sean Randall @Kara Goldfinch

Unknown parent

James Scholes

Unknown parent 4 months ago

@cachondo I do agree with that. While the advantages and use cases described in this thread are valid, on balance I think it's probably a poor default. @KaraLG84 @NVAccess

@NV Access @Sean Randall @Kara Goldfinch

in reply to James Scholes

Simon Jaeger

in reply to James Scholes 4 months ago

Pretty sure I haven't turned it off since 2009.

in reply to Simon Jaeger

James Scholes

in reply to Simon Jaeger 4 months ago

@simon @KaraLG84 Not wanting to colour the results, but honest question: how do you deal with it?

E.g. you encounter a group of links or radio buttons all on the same row. To activate/check a particular one, do you then just switch to quick navigation keys to jump through them?

@Kara Goldfinch @Simon Jaeger

in reply to James Scholes

Cleverson

in reply to James Scholes 4 months ago

@simon @KaraLG84 Yes, quick nav keys.

@Kara Goldfinch @Simon Jaeger

in reply to Peter Vágner

James Scholes

in reply to Peter Vágner 4 months ago

@pvagner @cachondo @NVAccess @KaraLG84 The document is reflowed regardless, and screen layout is not a 100 percent faithful representation of how a page looks.

@Peter Vágner @NV Access @Sean Randall @Kara Goldfinch

James Scholes

James Scholes 4 months ago • •

James Scholes
4 months ago