For public institutions, do all the data porting for them. Mirror their content on an open protocol. Archive their public post history with public interactions. Make the account interoperable with all platforms, so they can reach followers still on the previous service or on new services. Streamline follower migration over time not just initial setup. Then, hand it over to them when the admins are willing.
@magesh To your original question, I think this is an inadequate answer to many.
Yes, there are good folks here too… but not my family, IRL friends, or coworkers; the people I most want to talk to and get updates from. I think the most common reason I’ve encounter for any of those groups to signup and leave is the same network problem.
Clearly, I’m here and enjoying myself! There’s plenty to love! But I can’t use this tool to talk to those groups, and so it’s not useful for people who only want to talk to their IRL friends or family who aren’t here but are there.
This may be an #unpopularopinion however Twitter/X seems to be one side of an extreme, and then the generalized community among Mastodon appears to promote the opposing extreme. As long as the platforms are divided there can be no actual productive civil discourse on the matters at hand that divide us as a people. A truly non-bias approach where questions are asked and answers provided without the casting judgement is what is necessary to promote unity among the people of our society. The division between platforms is only mere representation of the actual division among our people. Maybe the solution is to promote and advocate federation among all social platforms and work towards a common goal. To set aside differences and try to understand. In the words of the late great Ozzy "Learn how to love, and forget how to hate".
the generalized community among Mastodon appears to promote the opposing extreme
Maybe if you very explicitly only count #Mastodon instances, but if you mean the #Fediverse instances, you're quite incorrect. The Fediverse hosts a very wide array of opinions, though I would not be surprised if your instance has a sizable blocklist which makes you feel like this is not the case. Hugboxes are quite dangerous, yet some fedi admins, especially Mastodon ones, seem hellbent on ensuring they never ever hear any opinion they disagree with. If you feel like the Fediverse hosts only a particular viewpoint, I would highly suggest joining a better instance.
@tyil I am new to my current instance. It seems as if, and I hope I'm correct, that as long as you conduct yourself respectfully then even unpopular opinions are okay. But the general culture that I've witnessed, in my multiple attempts to adopt the fedi, is that instances have been ready and willing to block entire other instances which do not wish, or see purpose, to moderate particularly "offensive" behaviors. I entirely support the idea that an individual has the control to block people or instances that they don't jive with, but it just feels like it's ignoring the real problem. I feel like people, with clashing opinions, can get a lot more done by communicating and working out their differences rather than condemning and avoiding the discussion all together. We should all be a little more like Daryl Davis who has converted many KKK members away from the Klan through simple human compassion and understanding. ted.com/talks/daryl_davis_klan…
A young African-American musician seemed an unlikely candidate to take on the Ku Klux Klan - but Daryl Davis used honesty, respect and human understanding to break down and dissolve the bitter, time-worn barriers that he encountered.
Looking at your instances absolutely humongous list of banned instances, that is definitely not the case.
But the general culture that I've witnessed
As I said in the previous toot, this is most likely to do by the kind of instances you adopt. If you're only sticking to #Mastodon instances with admins that consider it a hate crime to disagree on something, then yes, that will be your experience. I'm unsure as to why, but Mastodon instance admins seem extremely eager to defederate from other instances on a whim.
I entirely support the idea that an individual has the control to block people or instances that they don't jive with
I support this too. Individual users can block people they disagree with, because they're only hurting themselves if they create their own hugbox through these actions. Admins doing it for their users is morally wrong. It leads to this situation where you don't even know that most opinions are blocked from your view.
I feel like people, with clashing opinions, can get a lot more done by communicating
Definitely! If you truly believe in what you typed here, I strongly urge you to either self-host, or find an instance with admins that do not wish to act as fascist dictators to fulfill their own fantasies. In general, I recommend to stay away from #Mastodon instances because it seems the norm there, although there are a few instances with reasonable admins. If at all possible, self-host an instance, so you can be totally sure no insane controlfreaks can ruin your experience. Its also better to have many small instances for the Fediverse in general!
@tyil damn ur right. lol. I see a few though I know are just trollfarms tbh. But it does kind of seem to confirm the "in general this seems to be the case".. I've seen a lot of backlash about threads joining federation, and the thought of X even federating if they wanted to. Honestly exactly my issue though. It's like you have to pick sides no matter what.. every instance has this and that instance blocked.. show me one that doesn't block anything but then also doesn't wind up, in itself, getting blocked.
Edit: Self hosted is pretty good but in past it has been really hard to find/fill my feed. Not to mention the demands on disk space seems to get quite intensive after a while.
Sure, but should those be immediately defederated completely? Seems like massive overkill to me.
in general this seems to be the case
If you stick to those instances, then sure. If you do not, like me, you'll see it differently. You choose to stay within that narrative now that you know your current instance is part of the problem.
I've seen a lot of backlash about threads joining federation, and the thought of X even federating if they wanted to
I dislike the idea of them federating here, too. The people that come to the #Fediverse do so because they dislike the proprietary platforms and their tactics of manipulation for profit. Getting them here would only lower the quality of discourse on the Fediverse.
you have to pick sides no matter what
You don't, your admins do it for you without you knowing it.
show me one that doesn't block anything but then also doesn't wind up, in itself, getting blocked
This seems like a weak argument. Any instance I might show you, you can just add to any blocklist at that moment just to ensure you're always right. Besides, getting blocked by incompetent power-hungry #Mastodon admins requires no bad intent on the blockee's part, so it holds no meaning to be blocked in itself.
I know my instance is blocked by a few dozen other instances, but that doesn't mean my instance is unusable. On the contrary, the instances that don't block me value free and open discussion of any idea, which means that my experience of the Fediverse is much more wide in opinion than yours can ever be.
@tyil putting it into that light sure I can see your point. I have certainly had my fair share of instance hopping as well in attempt to find one that fits me. I ran my own at one point, got quite a bit of backlash due to not seeing need to moderate what I consider to be free speech. I do truly wonder how many instances, of the many are blocking so aggressively? it seems that a lot tend to cave under the pressure to moderate "unpopular opinions", at least a couple years ago when I last tried to get into fedi. Another thing I've failed to see is someone confront a "racist" with actual questions and discourse that lead to further understanding of each other, and possible resolve, rather than leading to personal attacks and threats to "defederate". I certainly understand that some people cannot be reasoned with but I think, much like when I am wrong about something, that many opinions are based on ignorance and lack of understanding. I think that ignorance can absolutely be fixed and resolved just through civil discourse where personal feelings are set aside to create a welcoming atmosphere of actual deeper understanding. From what I seen X tries to be that but instead of sticking around to try it seems that most people have just left the platform to the point it has become en echo chamber for the ignorant rather than a place for discourse that promotes the change necessary to break our people free from the shackles which divide us.
@xnite @tyil I do appreciate you interested in dialog. Very few opinions actually change that way mind you.
Bigger issue is the platform nor those on it. What gets amplified or silenced. There is a clear bias in X that uses free speech as a cover for an anti-woke agenda.
@tyil I may be wrong but doesn't that very same platform, X, support free speech both ways? I understand for sure how much it's become a hate machine within itself. I notice it every time that I've logged in over these past couple of years and it's almost as if you can't escape hearing a racial slur or hateful comment against an entire group of people. I absolutely see that as a problem. What I don't see is people combating those views or even trying to create a dialogue of any form of understanding. Very rarely do I see an opposing view. From my perspective those who would disagree the loudest have walked away and left the entire platform one sided. Those who are left get dog piled with none of their own "dogs" to jump in and defend them. Does true change not come from within? What happens to a society when that society does not speak up against the things that tear them apart from the inside out?
The most important question: Do you ever feel like maybe we are living in that part of history where the future children, who are learning about our time, raise their hand and ask "why didn't anybody do anything to stop them?"
my org still has an account, but doesn't use it actively anymore. The account is kept mainly to protect against identity theft. Imho the main driver is people *within* organizations having some moral fiber and a backbone. The main risk holding ppl back, these days, I think is being called 'woke' if you leave Twitter leading to a backlash, which they're afraid of. There is, and had been for a long time, very little other benefit of being on Twitter/X.
I was thinking about having a field in the New networks where you have your former network accounts listed (bio), so that can be indexed, searched for and automatically used.
To make it easier, force third party api access on twitter so that tools like the fedifinder work again and people can find their crowd on the other side
@dgoldsmith This is a really good question! Clout is definitely important to some, but I also think there’s more of an appetite for influencers than fedi would like to believe.
I know several folks who stay on Facebook, Instagram, and X because they like the influencer and celebrity content, and who’ve expressed they don’t want to move until they have an equivalent. I’ve been affectionately calling it “The People Magazine problem” to myself.
It’s perfectly reasonable to not want that content! I don’t but I do want my friends here and some of them want it. I haven’t figured out how to square the circle yet, unfortunately.
I use Twitter less than I did two years ago. Yet, I still visit daily for a few minutes because I find more useful information being shared there than I find on the three Mastodon channels that I also visit daily.
I still connect on Twitter with people who I met in the past who have not yet moved over here.
I had about 4500 Twitter followers 2 years ago and now 3500. I have far fewer here.
That trust of private companies is the root of many social, economic and environmental problems. I'm 78 so don't expect change in my remaining years. I hope younger people find a solution.
Joseph Quattrocchi
in reply to Mike Gifford, CPWA • • •Magesh
in reply to Mike Gifford, CPWA • • •there are still people posting good content on X and that’s the reason I haven’t been able to leave.
And yes, it also takes a lot of energy to build the network again from scratch on another platform.
Mike Gifford, CPWA
in reply to Magesh • • •Magesh
in reply to Mike Gifford, CPWA • • •that is true but most of my friends are still on X. Very few of them have moved to mastodon or Bluesky.
It feels lonely here. I need to make new friends to change that :)
Mike Gifford, CPWA
in reply to Magesh • • •Magesh
in reply to Mike Gifford, CPWA • • •John (he/him)
in reply to Mike Gifford, CPWA • • •@magesh To your original question, I think this is an inadequate answer to many.
Yes, there are good folks here too… but not my family, IRL friends, or coworkers; the people I most want to talk to and get updates from. I think the most common reason I’ve encounter for any of those groups to signup and leave is the same network problem.
Clearly, I’m here and enjoying myself! There’s plenty to love! But I can’t use this tool to talk to those groups, and so it’s not useful for people who only want to talk to their IRL friends or family who aren’t here but are there.
xnite
in reply to Mike Gifford, CPWA • • •tyil
in reply to xnite • • •Maybe if you very explicitly only count #Mastodon instances, but if you mean the #Fediverse instances, you're quite incorrect. The Fediverse hosts a very wide array of opinions, though I would not be surprised if your instance has a sizable blocklist which makes you feel like this is not the case. Hugboxes are quite dangerous, yet some fedi admins, especially Mastodon ones, seem hellbent on ensuring they never ever hear any opinion they disagree with. If you feel like the Fediverse hosts only a particular viewpoint, I would highly suggest joining a better instance.
xnite
in reply to tyil • • •But the general culture that I've witnessed, in my multiple attempts to adopt the fedi, is that instances have been ready and willing to block entire other instances which do not wish, or see purpose, to moderate particularly "offensive" behaviors. I entirely support the idea that an individual has the control to block people or instances that they don't jive with, but it just feels like it's ignoring the real problem. I feel like people, with clashing opinions, can get a lot more done by communicating and working out their differences rather than condemning and avoiding the discussion all together. We should all be a little more like Daryl Davis who has converted many KKK members away from the Klan through simple human compassion and understanding. ted.com/talks/daryl_davis_klan…
Klan We Talk?
www.ted.comtyil
in reply to xnite • • •Looking at your instances absolutely humongous list of banned instances, that is definitely not the case.
As I said in the previous toot, this is most likely to do by the kind of instances you adopt. If you're only sticking to #Mastodon instances with admins that consider it a hate crime to disagree on something, then yes, that will be your experience. I'm unsure as to why, but Mastodon instance admins seem extremely eager to defederate from other instances on a whim.
I support this too. Individual users can block people they disagree with, because they're only hurting themselves if they create their own hugbox through these actions. Admins doing it for their users is morally wrong. It leads to this situation where you don't even know that most opinions are blocked from your view.
Definitely! If you truly believe in what you typed here, I strongly urge you to either self-host, or find an instance with admins that do not wish to act as fascist dictators to fulfill their own fantasies. In general, I recommend to stay away from #Mastodon instances because it seems the norm there, although there are a few instances with reasonable admins. If at all possible, self-host an instance, so you can be totally sure no insane controlfreaks can ruin your experience. Its also better to have many small instances for the Fediverse in general!
xnite
in reply to tyil • • •@tyil damn ur right. lol. I see a few though I know are just trollfarms tbh. But it does kind of seem to confirm the "in general this seems to be the case".. I've seen a lot of backlash about threads joining federation, and the thought of X even federating if they wanted to. Honestly exactly my issue though. It's like you have to pick sides no matter what.. every instance has this and that instance blocked.. show me one that doesn't block anything but then also doesn't wind up, in itself, getting blocked.
Edit:
Self hosted is pretty good but in past it has been really hard to find/fill my feed. Not to mention the demands on disk space seems to get quite intensive after a while.
tyil
in reply to xnite • • •Sure, but should those be immediately defederated completely? Seems like massive overkill to me.
If you stick to those instances, then sure. If you do not, like me, you'll see it differently. You choose to stay within that narrative now that you know your current instance is part of the problem.
I dislike the idea of them federating here, too. The people that come to the #Fediverse do so because they dislike the proprietary platforms and their tactics of manipulation for profit. Getting them here would only lower the quality of discourse on the Fediverse.
You don't, your admins do it for you without you knowing it.
This seems like a weak argument. Any instance I might show you, you can just add to any blocklist at that moment just to ensure you're always right. Besides, getting blocked by incompetent power-hungry #Mastodon admins requires no bad intent on the blockee's part, so it holds no meaning to be blocked in itself.
I know my instance is blocked by a few dozen other instances, but that doesn't mean my instance is unusable. On the contrary, the instances that don't block me value free and open discussion of any idea, which means that my experience of the Fediverse is much more wide in opinion than yours can ever be.
xnite
in reply to tyil • • •Another thing I've failed to see is someone confront a "racist" with actual questions and discourse that lead to further understanding of each other, and possible resolve, rather than leading to personal attacks and threats to "defederate". I certainly understand that some people cannot be reasoned with but I think, much like when I am wrong about something, that many opinions are based on ignorance and lack of understanding. I think that ignorance can absolutely be fixed and resolved just through civil discourse where personal feelings are set aside to create a welcoming atmosphere of actual deeper understanding.
From what I seen X tries to be that but instead of sticking around to try it seems that most people have just left the platform to the point it has become en echo chamber for the ignorant rather than a place for discourse that promotes the change necessary to break our people free from the shackles which divide us.
Mike Gifford, CPWA
in reply to xnite • • •@xnite @tyil I do appreciate you interested in dialog. Very few opinions actually change that way mind you.
Bigger issue is the platform nor those on it. What gets amplified or silenced. There is a clear bias in X that uses free speech as a cover for an anti-woke agenda.
xnite
in reply to Mike Gifford, CPWA • • •@tyil I may be wrong but doesn't that very same platform, X, support free speech both ways? I understand for sure how much it's become a hate machine within itself. I notice it every time that I've logged in over these past couple of years and it's almost as if you can't escape hearing a racial slur or hateful comment against an entire group of people. I absolutely see that as a problem. What I don't see is people combating those views or even trying to create a dialogue of any form of understanding. Very rarely do I see an opposing view. From my perspective those who would disagree the loudest have walked away and left the entire platform one sided. Those who are left get dog piled with none of their own "dogs" to jump in and defend them.
Does true change not come from within? What happens to a society when that society does not speak up against the things that tear them apart from the inside out?
The most important question: Do you ever feel like maybe we are living in that part of history where the future children, who are learning about our time, raise their hand and ask "why didn't anybody do anything to stop them?"
LastOfThem
in reply to Mike Gifford, CPWA • • •𐇑 Angelino Desmet
in reply to Mike Gifford, CPWA • • •Maybe if the CEO becomes a Hitler fanboy, doing Nazi salutes on stage, people will leave in droves.
Wait…
F4GRX Sébastien
in reply to Mike Gifford, CPWA • • •we dont? At this point they got more than enough advice and information.
When you do a distillation, some tar always remain at the bottom of the retort. Thats it. Thats twitter. Let them stay here.
taketwo
in reply to Mike Gifford, CPWA • • •I was thinking about having a field in the New networks where you have your former network accounts listed (bio), so that can be indexed, searched for and automatically used.
To make it easier, force third party api access on twitter so that tools like the fedifinder work again and people can find their crowd on the other side
John (he/him)
in reply to Mike Gifford, CPWA • • •@dgoldsmith This is a really good question! Clout is definitely important to some, but I also think there’s more of an appetite for influencers than fedi would like to believe.
I know several folks who stay on Facebook, Instagram, and X because they like the influencer and celebrity content, and who’ve expressed they don’t want to move until they have an equivalent. I’ve been affectionately calling it “The People Magazine problem” to myself.
It’s perfectly reasonable to not want that content! I don’t but I do want my friends here and some of them want it. I haven’t figured out how to square the circle yet, unfortunately.
tutormentor1
in reply to Mike Gifford, CPWA • • •I use Twitter less than I did two years ago. Yet, I still visit daily for a few minutes because I find more useful information being shared there than I find on the three Mastodon channels that I also visit daily.
I still connect on Twitter with people who I met in the past who have not yet moved over here.
I had about 4500 Twitter followers 2 years ago and now 3500. I have far fewer here.
Mike Gifford, CPWA
in reply to tutormentor1 • • •tutormentor1
in reply to Mike Gifford, CPWA • • •Between 2013 and 2022 I embedded dozens of Tweets into my blog articles. Here's one example. tutormentor.blogspot.com/2019/…
I don't do that any more.
Sadly, some of the Tweets I put in my blog articles no longer work because the authors deleted their accounts. That's a loss of information.
Movement Building - Afterschool Conference and More
tutormentor.blogspot.comMike Gifford, CPWA
in reply to tutormentor1 • • •tutormentor1
in reply to Mike Gifford, CPWA • • •