We tried the "The NSA kills people based on meta data" approach and it did nothing to convince people to use #XMPP.
How about changing our messaging to: "Your crippling BNPL debt is a direct consequence of Google, Meta and ByteDance knowing every fucking thing about you"
How about changing our messaging to: "Your crippling BNPL debt is a direct consequence of Google, Meta and ByteDance knowing every fucking thing about you"
phylax
in reply to Daniel Gultsch • • •phylax
in reply to Daniel Gultsch • • •Marcus
in reply to Daniel Gultsch • • •We've reached a point in tech where most people who use the internet are lay people who don't want to know how it works and go with the simplest option, so it's up to activists and those of us who do understand things to direct folks to better options. It's the same reason Google is still dominating search; they're usually the default.
One thing I did was I just gave people an ultimatum. I deactivated Facebook and told them, "If you want to message me, here are a few options I trust."
Matthias
in reply to Daniel Gultsch • • •I like xmpp and I am running an xmpp server since I can not remember when. But I have to say that there are still severe technical issues why I can not recommend it to "normal" people like:
* message loss
* duplicate messages
* encryption problems
* bad user experience on several apps
* unreliable s2s connections
Attached a sceenshot from today.
BUT: If all these problems would not exist, people still would not use it because they don't understand why they should.
Daniel Gultsch
in reply to Matthias • • •I'm not experiencing any of those issues.
maple
in reply to Daniel Gultsch • • •You're beating a dead horse. There is absolutely nothing you can do that is going to convince most people to use #XMPP because it is the Linux of messaging platforms, It may be better, it may be more private and more secure, but people don't care about that. All they want is something super easy to set up and use, and they want to be on the platform that friends and family are using. And no, they have no desire whatsoever to host a server for friends and family, that's waaaay to complicated for them (even it it literally involved entering one command at a command prompt it would still be to complicated). And they actually trust a big corporation more to keep their conversations private than some XMPP service they have never heard of.
If the day ever comes when they do give a rat's ass about privacy it will be too late because by the the big corporations and the government will already know everything about them. But most people seem to think they have nothing to hide so why should they be concerned about privacy? And if the last election taught us anything it is that far too many people are totally gullible.
As The World Turns
in reply to maple • • •@maple @Daniel Gultsch
Isn't WhatsApp based on xmpp protocol?
The current xmpp client feature set are fractured. e2ee is not on by default either.. my Q is why is there even an option to disable e2ee?. I find that weird in these times....
#XMPP
Gold gab ich für Eisen
in reply to As The World Turns • • •As The World Turns
in reply to Gold gab ich für Eisen • • •@Gold gab ich für Eisen @maple @Daniel Gultsch
why?
how is that secure communications, if its clear text? to me, not logical. just saying.
why is the fight over chatcontrol? fight over encryption? so cleartext comms safer? more secure? more private?
we can agree to disagree.
Gold gab ich für Eisen
in reply to As The World Turns • • •@sammi @maple I mean, not all communications in instant messengers are private talks, one may want to write chatbots, run internal organizational server for work conversations or whatever. Implementation of correct crypto can be an extra burden for such tasks and even its properties, like [overadvertized] forward secrecy, may be not optimal (when it is better to accept the danger of leak rather than loose something).
Finally, don't forget that a plethora of people uses Gmail without any GPG.
And it is not that E2EE is not necessary. Yes it is necessary, and it must be a default setting, but if one wants to disable it for some reason, why not.
As The World Turns
in reply to Gold gab ich für Eisen • • •@Gold gab ich für Eisen @Daniel Gultsch @maple
why are we conflating email with IM? weird. so are you saying xmpp is like non encrypted gmail?
Are users of gmail concerned with e2ee IM.
xmpp clients feature set are fractured. I tried using cheogram, monocles. for me, my UX was lukewarm at best. so say its fast and light, us it because its missing out the real privacy security stuff to claim its fast and light.
xmpp clients, to me anyway, don't meet my requirements of e2ee by default, e2ee private or public groups.
xmpp may be a standard. that standard is yesterday standard. to me, it hasn't modernised for todays requirements.
its unable to pivot to catch fire against the newer technology that's half its age. why is that? poor governance....
Gold gab ich für Eisen
in reply to As The World Turns • • •@sammi @maple
"why are we conflating email with IM?"
E.g. because both are used for communication between people.
"xmpp clients, to me anyway, don't meet my requirements of e2ee by default"
You are not enforced to use them. As #xmpp is an open standard and there are #freesoftware clients, you are free to make one that meets your standards.
As The World Turns
in reply to Gold gab ich für Eisen • • •@Gold gab ich für Eisen @maple @Daniel Gultsch
I know I'm not enforced to use them. I have decided not to use it as it does not meet my needs as I said. the xmpp clients are fractured, I have no interest in its ecosystem as I don't believe in it. I know, there are those who believe in it though.
if it can modernise itself, I may have another look. to me, it's legacy tech.
#xmpp #freesoftware
Gold gab ich für Eisen
in reply to As The World Turns • • •@sammi @maple So why are you keeping discuss this legacy tech?
The #xmpp "ecosystem" (deemed to be a word-to-avoid, actually) owes you nothing.
As The World Turns
in reply to Gold gab ich für Eisen • • •@Gold gab ich für Eisen @maple @Daniel Gultsch
I was done discussing this legacy tech, but you keep responding, so I respond back. makes sense, no?
if I want a secure msgr, xmpp clients are not it. if they get their act together, then there is a marginal chance I would look at it again, but by then, I would have moved way on.
Mazhe
in reply to Daniel Gultsch • • •