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OK, so I just got an email saying @penpot just got $8M in series A.

Last I raised concerns about their funding (mastodon.ar.al/@aral/107213277…), @diacritica assured me “you won't see any VC” (fosstodon.org/@diacritica/1072…)

Well, this sure looks like VC to me.

Folks investing $8M are going to want a billion-dollar exit. So who’s that exit going to be to (Adobe’s already full, is Google hungry for a design tool?) Or do they plan on going public?

#vc #ventureCapital #BigTech #exits #openSource #penPot


diacritica (@diacritica@fosstodon.org)

@aral@mastodon.ar.al @penpot I think I know what happened here? the "ventures" term misled you, which is understandable but if you take a look at our website kaleidos.net you won't see any VC.
Fosstodon
#opensource #bigtech #vc #venturecapital #penpot #exits @Penpot @Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz
in reply to Aral Balkan

Aral Balkan
Aral Balkan
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(This really makes me sad because it’s an excellent tool and I love using it. But we all know how the VC game ends.)
in reply to Aral Balkan

Aral Balkan
Aral Balkan
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* Let me be more precise, Adobe just ate, I don’t know whether they’re full or not.
in reply to Aral Balkan

❄️ freezr ❄️
❄️ freezr ❄️
• •

nothing good will happen, same old pattern and same ugly result... :flan_heck:

The same designers are the first ones with zero education about open source culture... :flan_tired:

Unknown parent

Aral Balkan
Aral Balkan
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@bananarama The app itself is an excellent tool for vector illustration, etc. You can try it out quite easily and see for yourself.
@Iridium Zeppelin
in reply to Aral Balkan

FediThing has moved!
FediThing has moved!
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If the worst happens, how easy would it be for people to fork it?

The Penpot licence is MPL 2.0:

github.com/penpot/penpot/blob/…

...how much does this protect it from a takeover? Does it protect it at all?


penpot/LICENSE at develop · penpot/penpot

Penpot - The Open-Source design & prototyping platform - penpot/LICENSE at develop · penpot/penpot
GitHub
in reply to FediThing has moved!

Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz
Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz
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@FediThing Forking an MPL 2.0 project is trivial, you wouldn't have any issue and there are already hundreds of forks on github. The only issue would be with the Penpot trademark, but you can rename it to FediPot if you like it.
@FediThing has moved!
in reply to Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz

Aral Balkan
Aral Balkan
• •

@FediThing Forking a project is trivial, yes. Maintaining a fork isn’t. I can fork Penpot with the click of a mouse. I can’t maintain it without setting up a team like you have. I can’t set up a team like you have and compete with you because I don’t have $8M in investment. Again, I’m pretty sure you know this too.

Furthermore, MPL is also excellent for enclosing an open source project because its share alike “protections” are file-level. There’s a reason Penpot isn’t AGPL.

@FediThing has moved!
in reply to Aral Balkan

Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz
Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz
• •
@FediThing I was a fan of AGPL (Taiga was AGPL before we moved to MPL) but it didn't have specific brand protection. MPL was a compromise between strong copyleft and flexibility. I'd love to have something that took the best of AGPL and MPL for server-client open source projects.
@FediThing has moved!
in reply to Aral Balkan

Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz
Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz
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@FediThing On the fork side. Absolutely, forking on Github is cheap and useless 99% of the time. What I meant is that if Penpot got massively big and relevant and suddenly the whole team goes mad and betrays its own Community (like Figma) there could be an opportunity (and resources) for a takeover. Significant FOSS projects have that escape route. I'm not saying you could do it, but I'm sure there would be critical mass to effectively fork it.
@FediThing has moved!
in reply to Aral Balkan

Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz
Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz
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@FediThing Now, TBH, we're devoting all of our energy towards the happy scenarios, we haven't really started yet! This is still a BETA product with much of our vision still in draft mode, it'll take us at least a couple of years to flesh out what Penpot really means, open source/open standards driven design+code collaboration.
@FediThing has moved!
in reply to Aral Balkan

Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz
Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz
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My response back then was referring to the fact that we had used the company name "Kaleidos Ventures" when no VC was backing us, we have dropped that since then, it was misleading. At the same time, earlier this year we looked for like-minded investors who would protect the open source nature of the project FOR EVER and after many many many! disgusting conversations we met the guys at open source VC Decibel and we made a deal.
in reply to Aral Balkan

Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz
Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz
• •
The Figmagate had nothing to do with this, the investment came when few people would believe in our open source/open standards design&prototype tool (or would want to close source it). Now that Figmagate happened my inbox is full of "want to catch-up VC emails", but the team here is really happy to have the right open source investors. Be critical of all this but most important, trust our process, not my word as CEO
in reply to Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz

Aral Balkan
Aral Balkan
• •

It’s the process I don’t trust because I know how venture capital works and I’m pretty sure you do too (at least I hope you do or you’re in for a rude shock. I don’t say that sarcastically either, I’ve actually met founders who didn’t know what they were giving up by taking VC.)

So, assuming you know how VC works, what’s the return on investment your investors expect for $8M? In other words, what’s the exit you promised them in exchange for $8M?

#ventureCapital #vc #penPot

#vc #venturecapital #penpot
in reply to Aral Balkan

Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz
Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz
• •
We promised nothing in return except executing our vision. They promised to fully protect the open source nature of our products. People sometimes think the product itself has to become the basis for any ROI but there are many other ways. But for that we need to build a greater ecosystem. We're focusing on an altruistic game-theory pattern and hoping it'll work in the end. If this becomes big enough $8M will look like peanuts in retrospective, don't you think?
in reply to Aral Balkan

Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz
Pablo Ruiz-Múzquiz
• •
May I suggest something? The Kaleidos team and myself are very excited to bring more good Penpot stuff next month, when we exit BETA, we're really really busy with all the sudden attention and pressure. We will also keep communicating our plans in more detail. I'd love to have a more synchronous talk at some point in Jan/Feb, perhaps a videocall? We can pick a few key topics and have a more easy to follow conversation. Do any of you attend FOSDEM by any chance?
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