Skip to main content


@ericbuijs We have to be very careful about setting privacy expectations: there is no #privacy in the #ActivityPub protocol/#mastodon/the #fediverse.

mastodon.ar.al/web/@aral/10925…

in reply to Aral Balkan

Maybe see it this way: it is as private as any Activity in a Pub.
in reply to Aral Balkan

Your point is taken. To clarify my remark a bit. In the Fediverse is no Big Tech lurking on your data to create a profile and sell that as many times as possible. However if your on someone else's instance a rogue admin can still gather all the data on that instance (even the DM's I suppose).
in reply to Aral Balkan

At least with ActivityPub you get a choice in who is able to read your DMs. I think too many people assumed that even Twitter messaging was private, and somehow that (incorrect) model applies here.
in reply to Aral Balkan

but there can be if folks start to think about this collectively and understand how the laws may apply.

github.com/clening/MastodonPri…

in reply to Aral Balkan

I've seen people raising this on twitter like its "a bad thing". When in reality it's no different to any of the "town hall" social media platforms. Posts and DMs aren't encrypted. They're not losing anything they already have.
in reply to Aral Balkan

I've come to think that it's actually a good thing if social media sites don't have end-to-end encryption. Otherwise, you're providing an organizing tool for bad actors.
in reply to mathew 🦜☕

@mathew Can you please unset your password and mail me your phone? I’d like to have a look through it to ensure you’re not a bad actor.
in reply to Aral Balkan

Ah, but my phone isn't the same thing as a public social network.
in reply to mathew 🦜☕

@mathew But we’re talking about end-to-end encryption and private messaging. Removing the ability for people to communicate privately wouldn’t do anything to stop bad actors, it would just make private communication illegal. And guess who are great at doing illegal things… that’s right, bad actors :)

What it would also do, of course, is allow corporations and governments to further skew the power dynamic in their favour and, eventually, to erode the very concept of personhood.

in reply to Aral Balkan

I have no problem with end-to-end encrypted messaging for 1-on-1 communication, or 1-to-small-group.

Where it becomes problematic is if you imagine K*w*farms or 8k*n, but decentralized enough to be unstoppable, and with everything encrypted so that nobody would know what was going on until it was far too late.

I think people building social networks need to put more effort into making sure they're not building or enabling a more effective K*w*farms.

in reply to Aral Balkan

Twitter can read your DMs too, and people still think it's secure.
At least with Mastodon you know exactly who can.
Hi @omnipotens :ablobcatwave:
in reply to Linux in a Bit 🐧

@Linux_in_a_Bit
I don't think anyone cares enough to go through the work of digging through DB to read DMs lol honestly not even sure it is possible never looked. @architect is the only one who's ever touched the dB on lr to repair records.
in reply to Michael Brazda

@omnipotens @Linux_in_a_Bit @architect Of course it is possible because, again, it is unencrypted. And unless you run your instance on physical hardware in your bedroom, folks in the data center and at your hosting provider are among the ones who could have access to them. Given that the privacy (and thus safety) of the people on your instance is concerned, I would expect a much less cavalier attitude towards this from a server admin than “no one cares lol.”
in reply to Aral Balkan

@Linux_in_a_Bit @architect

Fair enough the comment was mostly in jest as the point was it would be a pain in the rear just to read someone's DMs.

As for security it is taken pretty seriously from physical access to software. Including using clevis and tang with tpm on the host.

If someone were to break into the data center and take the server even they would not have access to the data.

in reply to Aral Balkan

It is really just as secure as DMs on Twitter or Facebook. Which is to say: not really secure at all.

The question is: is it safer to trust a random assortment of admins with overheard info, or corporations who exist to aggregate and sell your data?

"Safe as a Pub" is probably about right.

Perhaps it will call attention to end-to-end encrypted chat methods, though.