What happens when you have your own Mastodon instance (just for you) where over 21,000 people follow you and when you’re following over 4,300 people?
You end up paying ~€50/month for Mastodon hosting 👀
It also opens up interesting questions: what happens when a popular account joins your instance (hint: it will probably cost the instance maintainers quite a bit… I don’t envy the mastodon.nu folks right now).
#fediverse #mastodon
You end up paying ~€50/month for Mastodon hosting 👀
It also opens up interesting questions: what happens when a popular account joins your instance (hint: it will probably cost the instance maintainers quite a bit… I don’t envy the mastodon.nu folks right now).
#fediverse #mastodon
Aral Balkan
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •I actually think it’s good to be reminded that our ability to communicate comes with a cost – in terms of resources, environmental impact, etc., not just money.
But, equally, it also makes the case that a system optimised to host hundreds of thousands of people on a single instance is not also somehow magically optimised to host just one person.
The latter is the problem I’m exploring with #SmallWeb.
Gert V 🇵🇸
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to Gert V 🇵🇸 • • •Matt 🌻
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Have you tried being less popular?
Aral Balkan
in reply to Matt 🌻 • • •realcaseyrollins ✝️
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •IDK; one of the major backends on the #Fediverse is #Pleroma and its cousins, which despite being more efficient (thus scaling better) than #Mastodon, it's largely used for single-instance users.
Aral Balkan
in reply to realcaseyrollins ✝️ • • •Although, ActivityPub itself, of course, isn’t.
realcaseyrollins ✝️
in reply to realcaseyrollins ✝️ • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to realcaseyrollins ✝️ • • •Micah
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •It’s possible if all the celebs join one instance the cost will have a plateau, because Justin Bieber and Selena Gomez are followed by people on the same servers.
Chris Beiting
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Marko Kekäläinen
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Well, we're certainly on a verge of something new.
B.LEAGUER
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •I’m considering starting a Pleroma instance. It seems to be a lighter weight option, and for whatever feature parity it misses with Mastodon, might make up for that fact being compatible with Mastodon client apps. https://pleroma.social/
Pleroma — a lightweight fediverse server
pleroma.socialLapineige
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •And this is an issue for small hosting and big ones too…
Justin Thomas 🛡
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Brent Ashley
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •2 USD VPS - Cheap VPS Under $2/Month (Updated September 2022) -
Jon Biloh (LowEndBox.com)Sbectol :twt:
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Adam Dalliance
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Is it mostly the people following you or the people you are following I wonder? Easier to cut the people you follow I suppose.
Carloseduardopx
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Adam Beltz
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Gilles Dutilh aka DePemig
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Arclight
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Vale@kujike.nai
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to Vale@kujike.nai • • •I mean, is it lights out if Stephen Fry ever joins mastodon.social? :)
Frank I Am
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •He just left Twitter, so someone might need to buckle up soon.
Patrick Dersjant RCX
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Vale@kujike.nai
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Gareth Kitchen
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to Gareth Kitchen • • •(Sorry, I don’t get the question. Apparently I’m using > 20GB of database space – what’s taking all that up, I don’t know – and the masto.host interface shows 0GB of media storage being used, which I’m assuming is a bug.)
Gareth Kitchen
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •I just thought it a lot of money given the costs of a small OVH VPS self host sort of approach which is less than £5 a month (40Gb storage and unlimited traffic).
Aral Balkan
Unknown parent • • •Daryl White
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Lari Lohikoski
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •It seems that it is quite a resource hog. I wonder if something can be done to further optimize the federation.
Sam Deane
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •That doesn’t feel very efficient, but it also feels like a space where a cooperative caching layer could sit; one that is contributed to by all, without needing to being owned by anyone. Sort of like a CDN in that it’s used if available, but not required for the server to work.
Rob van Eijk
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •VPS, web hosting pricing—Amazon Lightsail—Amazon Web Services
Amazon Web Services, Inc.@7
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •ij
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Alja Isakovic
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Thibault Molleman🇧🇪 🌈🐝
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •IzzyOnDroid ✅
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •ScottMGS
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •StephaneHuart
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •alexis 🀄️
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Darth Kilroy
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Maarten den Braber
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Maarten den Braber
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •How to make Sidekiq faster · Discussion #19797 · mastodon/mastodon
GitHubXasin, Neira & Mesh
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •The way I understand it, instances share content with each other when needed. So if you are following 4k people, but 3k of those have already been followed by others on your instance, you share that traffic :>
Plus, instance-internal follows are cheap, and you get a more even usage of your resources rather than "mostly nothing until someone very popular posts"
Rezha Julio
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Thomas Røst Stenerud
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Tristan Harward
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Scaling this thing is going to be fun.
Mahdi Baghbani :verified:
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •that 19 GB is too much, my VPS has only 24 and I'm hosting everything I can on it.
there are only 2 people on my instance currently and I'm mostly following people I knew from Twitter who have migrated recently.
Rumblestiltskin
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Ola Svensson
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •robreed
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •With any project it's generally important to start with a clear understanding of what it is that you're trying to accomplish. That allows you to size your effort(s) and resources to achieve goals without derailing a promising effort. It also helps to stay focused on achieving what it is that you set out to do, rather than chasing other arbitrary gains and compromising your mission in the process.
Arjen P. de Vries Timmers 🕊️
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •On my instance I delete about 1GB a day in unnecessary media attachments that are exchanged, I guess that number is much higher for you?
Erica
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Paul Trotter :dotnet: :csharp:
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Jack Lowe
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •krebstar
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Adnan 🦙
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Oblomov
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Stéphane Bortzmeyer
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Adnan 🦙
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Aaron Weiss
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •As the fediverse scales up, are we looking at a world where it's fair to ask the users with the biggest followers to shoulder more of the hosting costs?
Zef
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Josh Knapp :verified:
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •What type of hosting are you using?
As an instance operator, I decided to offload objects to S3/Cloudfront and Email to SES (mostly to avoid dealing with emails getting flagged as spam).
Annika Backstrom
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Matheus Pratta
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Nigel
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Mx Autumn :blobcatpumpkin:
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Christopher M0YNG
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •kurtseifried (he/him)
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Shanya (Ask for BlueSky)
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •TechSquidTV
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •On a personal level I'm wondering what I could feasibly do at home and possibly tunnel through Cloudflare.
On a large scale, I see issues
AntZoo :verigold: :verified:
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Hugo Gameiro
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Grant 🇺🇦ArmUkraine🇺🇦
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •HendacTeslar
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Sam Steele 🏳️🌈 🎮 📸 👨💻
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Peter van Grieken - Frijns
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Oli
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •idiom – name for large constructions that are not used
Contributors to Wikimedia projects (Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.)Ion Orion
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Vito Botta
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Arctic (back up - see pinned)
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •It is crazy to think about how many resources we use for everyday activities
Erica ☠️
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Bonkers
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •ploum
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Chris Olsen
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Michael
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •I've been wondering about the single-user vs multi-user instance question from a performance standpoint ever since I read your arguments for smaller instances.
I seems I will have to read the ActivityPub spec at some point.
Joe Taylor Jr.
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Steve Foerster 🇩🇲
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Ricard Torres
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Really curious. Self-hosting my single-user instance and the space usage is not trivial.
Had I known I would've gone with #Pleroma probably.
Marcel Bootsman
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Marcel
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •macdude22
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Dr. Guillermo Power :verified:
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Tero Keski-Valkama
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Andrés Monroy-Hernández
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Bill Day
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Shannon
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Matt Harris (he/him)
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Super cool that you can do something like this
Heath Allyn
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Kazinator
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •What's the big deal about having 20,000 followers? If you're the only user on your own node and you Toot to 20,000 followers, doesn't it work similarly to a multi-cast, sending only a tiny amount of traffic to the peer nodes? Surely your node doesn't sit there looping from 0 to 19999, sending a separate toot to every follower.
Danica Niki Radisic
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Tobias Fiebig
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Internet Rando
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •I'm enjoying the lack of ads and am happy to pay for this.
Throw a few sheckles to your local admin. They will appreciate it.
Marcos Huerta
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Searcher Eye :openbsd: 📺
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Czarnobajewka
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •mitra
Codeberg.orgJan Kaluza
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •T.C. Harris
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Brett
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Moffin'tosh
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Moffin'tosh
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Bart Janssens 🇧🇪
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Aaron K.
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Tommi 🤯
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •If only it was written in #Go…
Michael Stanclift
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Nemo_bis 🌈
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •I don't think hosting costs scale with followers though. My single-person instance with 1500 accounts has tripled its followers in a week and it's comfortably within the resources available to it with 25 €/month of expenses. Load has barely changed.
https://respublicae.eu/@praetor/109295906060181251
Moderation and other #MastoAdmin costs however scale with the number of eyeballs, I suppose.
Fifty Four Park
in reply to Nemo_bis 🌈 • • •Aral Balkan
in reply to Fifty Four Park • • •@nemobis @mastohost
Masto.host
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •@nemobis
Adnan 🦙
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Wyatt Eichholz
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •We’ll see in the long run if a new equilibrium can be struck, or if centralized providers are the only feasible market option for scale.
Philipp Michel Reichold
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Fear Is The Mind Killer 🇹🇼
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •Prakash C
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •il Luca 😎 Quant Stock Investor
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •It is unsustainable and unscalable.
I am a developer, in order to survive it should become more P2P like the old emule so everyone share the running costa on his own device
Marius DAVID
in reply to Aral Balkan • • •