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The thing about JAWS vs NVDA is that it doesn't matter if @freedomscientific packs it with objectively better features. NVDA is free, easy to use (within the context of desktop screen readers), and it's good enough for the vast majority of screen reader users. Want to browse the web? Want to check your email? Need to type up an assignment? Need to track data with spreadsheets? Want to write some code? Want to run virtual machines? Just wanna keep up with your communities on Discord? Want to test your app for accessibility? NVDA can do all of those things. There is no faffing, no caveats, no running obscure commands, and no license to install. You download it. You install it. You run it. That's it. Want it to do more stuff? Open the addon store which is built into NVDA. If you know Python, you can write your own addons and share them with other users.
FS is relying on organizations like schools and governments where paying hundreds and hundreds of dollars is normal and expected and you can't just install an addon to an existing app. This does not work outside of those organizations. The blind kid who wants to listen to memes and keep up with their friends doesn't have several hundred dollars per year, but they probably know that they can go download a free screen reader that will let them listen to memes and keep up with their friends.
NVDA is winning because it's good enough for most people and costs nothing. If you do have the money to spare for a license and you want to use JAWS because you prefer it, that's fantastic! I'm glad you found a screen reader that you like. Most people will choose the free option because they just wanna listen to their favorite streamer while they type up their research paper.
#blind #AccessForAll #ScreenReader #nvda #jaws #jaws26
#blind #screenreader #nvda #jaws #accessforall #jaws26 @Freedom Scientific / Vispero

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Matt Campbell

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Jason J.G. White

I suspect that, in comparing screen readers, there may be a tendency to overlook the fact that the functionality of NVDA is distributed between the core application and a large collection of community-supplied add-ons. For a feature-level comparison with other screen readers (in the Windows environment or elsewhere), you really have to compare NVDA + relevant add-ons with the capabilities of the alternatives. Comparing only the NVDA core without the add-ons is misleading.
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x0

@jason @matt Except for in constrained environments. Of course, JAWS has the same thing with JAWS scripts, many of which are community supplied, but some ship with the screen reader, equivalent to NVDA's default app modules. I wonder which community is larger and has more active development and new add-ons? The store helped NVDA's process along I think, although the Spanish store was and still is going pretty strongly. I don't think JAWS has a central index of scripts. But JAWS scripts might cover some more niche cases than add-ons currently do, given longer history.
@Matt Campbell @Jason J.G. White
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Jason J.G. White

I'm fortunately in the position of having the freedom to choose my own hardware, operating systems and software - I'll never have to think about constrained environments. One advantage of NVDA is that there's now a centralized repository for add-ons, whereas there isn't for JAWS scripts. Voiceover for Mac supports AppleScript, but there are no published scripts as far as I am aware. Orca under Linux (which I use a lot) is moving toward supporting an add-on capability, but at the moment, all of the new features go directly into the core application.
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Jason J.G. White

NVDA should be well suited to many higher education and employment scenarios as well. At least in the work I do, Web applications are becoming increasingly common (e.g., Google Drive/Docs for sharing documents that are not on GitHub), so it typically doesn't matter what operating system, let alone screen reader, one is using as long as they work reliably with modern Web-based interfaces, and the Web applications are accessible. Microsoft 365 is also widely used, and NVDA supports it. I'm sure there are various legacy enterprise applications around, but they'll probably continue to migrate to the Web over time, or be replaced by Web-based alternatives.
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Kara Goldfinch

@matt The main thing that shocked me about JAWS when I tried it again last year, is that there is still an option in Settings Centre that is specifically for using DECtalk Access32 with single channel sound cards like the Soundblaster 16. I last needed to use that setting when I used a sound card like that in 1999 on Windows 95. I was using JFW 3.2 then which came out in 1998..
As far as I know, you can't run version 24 or whichever one I tried on a system where that would he needed but yet it's still there. What else I wonder is still there from 1998 that is no longer needed?
@Matt Campbell

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NV Access

@cubic @Rich I don't think anyone has seriously believed the "open source is bad" argument for many years now. We have a page listing many government & large corporate policies PROMOTING the use of open-source first: nvaccess.org/corporate-governm…

Many organisations need to have certain information about a program (license, what information it collects, etc) before they install it, and anything not on that page we are happy to answer via email - info@nvaccess.org

NV Access | Corporate & Government

www.nvaccess.org
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Rich W. Beardsley

@NVAccess @cubic As much as I want that to be true, I don't know how much I believe it. The industry as a whole is still very heavily pushing tools that are over thousands of dollars on us and almost seem like they don't want to give NVDA a fair chance. As someone who uses NVDA full-time and truly appreciates the product, I feel like I'm in a very small minority. Whether directly or indirectly, blind people in developed countries are essentially being told "here's JAWS. Shut up and be grateful you have it". When you dare to question it people almost don't know how to handle you. I was specifically asked why I didn't want JAWS when the people for the state were doing my evaluation to determine what technology I'd be receiving.
@NV Access @Seedy!
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NV Access

@Rich @cubic When someone is pushing a paid or more expensive option, it is often because they benefit from it. We're happy to talk to state evaluators and organisations so they know about NVDA. At the end of the day, they should be providing the user with FULL information about the options, costs (up front and ongoing) and recommending the solution which is best for that individual, not for any other reason
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Eden Linnea

@NVAccess @Rich @cubic If it would work with my work software, Eclipse, I would give it a try. And not Eclipse the programming language. For a minute, it worked in NVDA, but then it was reading everything twice in JAWS. So when they fixed that, NVDA no longer works again. I think the clickable thing just drove me nuts on the web. And I feel like I must be an idiot, because I believe people when they say it's fast and responsive for them, but I've found it stalls programs for me and such. Don't get me wrong. I'm glad you guys are around and applaud what you do.
@Rich W. Beardsley @NV Access @Seedy!
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James Dean

@EdenLinnea @NVAccess @Rich @cubic I get that the "Clickable" thing is super annoying. If you go into NVDA Settings then Document Formatting and shift+tab five times, you find a box that says "clickable." Uncheck it and no more "clickable clickable clickable" nearly everywhere on the web. This should really be turned off by default because literally everyone I have taught NVDA to has wanted that turned off as soon as they encountered it.
@Rich W. Beardsley @NV Access @Eden Linnea @Seedy!
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NV Access

@GamingWithEars @EdenLinnea @Rich @cubic I just had a look at our issues - github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issue… - and didn't see a request for it (it seems like something there may well be one for somewhere) - do feel free to create an issue - technically it wouldn't be hard to change it to default to disabled, it would just be ascertaining how the most users prefer it

nvaccess/nvda

NVDA, the free and open source Screen Reader for Microsoft Windows - nvaccess/nvda
GitHub
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Jamie Pauls

@EdenLinnea @NVAccess @Rich @cubic Coming at this conversation as someone who uses both screen readers, I would encourage anyone who has even a slight interest in using more than one screen reader to take time to play with jaws, NVDA, and even narrator if you are so inclined. If you are someone who is quite happy with one screen reader, then that is fine as well. The fact that we can even have a serious discussion about multiple screen readers is remarkable in my opinion.
@Rich W. Beardsley @NV Access @Eden Linnea @Seedy!
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