I asked where people who encounter problems voting (e.g. right wing intimidation) can get help. Commenters responded with great suggestions:
mastodon.social/deck/@dangillm…
Many thanks to you all!
Dan Gillmor (@dangillmor@mastodon.social)
Can anyone point me to resources on how to report trouble -- e.g. right-wing intimidation -- at polling places?Mastodon
I recently found a new podcast. The audio production is quite good, but there's one thing driving me absolutely nuts. The cast make heavy use of modern cell phones. For some reason, the sound designer uses a dial tone, the rapid beeping when a landline receiver is left off the hook, and the sound of the called phone's ringing stretched out far too long. All for cell phones. There's also the triple beep of a cell call ending, so they know cell phones. It's maddening.
zastanawiałam się, czy wrzucać dodatkowo u siebie, jako osobnego toota, skoro już krąży po sieci, temat kontrowersyjny, a ja cierpię na chroniczny niedobór doby ;)
ale w sumie mogę zapuścić linka i dodatkowo otagować:
Czy polska szkoła musi być uzależniona od Big Techów?
techspresso.cafe/2024/10/28/cz…
#edukacja #szkoła #wychowanie #dzieci #nauczyciele #rodzicielstwo #eSzkola #cyfryzacja #edziennik #microsoft #komercjalizacja #bigtech
Czy polska szkoła musi być uzależniona od Big Techów? - TECHSPRESSO.CAFE
Czy polska szkoła musi być uzależniona od Big Techów? Państwo promuje zagraniczne korporacje w polskich szkołach. Osoby szanujące prywatność sprowadza do "roszczeniowych dziwaków". My wszyscy natomiast to finansujemy z naszych podatków.Joanna Cisowska (TECHSPRESSO.CAFE)
in reply to didleth 🇵🇱 🌈 🇺🇦 🇪🇺 ⚡
@avolha Z czasów licealnych / pandemicznych, to Polskie szkoły były tak niedofinansowane, że w praktyce kończyły uzależnione od Discorda, bo to było jedyne darmowe i sensowne na tą skalę rozwiązanie. to był dopiero prywatnościowy problem, zwłaszcza przy domyślnych ustawieniach i udostępnianiu kadrze informacji, kto, w co i kiedy gra.
So proud to announce this 😁😁😁 - today, journalists from three media organizations – Follow the Money, EUobserver and Investigate Europe – are launching a new newsletter to expose the lack of transparency within the European Union.
We call it the Secrecy Tracker. Why we are doing this now?
The European Commission tends to treat transparency like a decoration – nice to look at, but not for actual use.
Under President von der Leyen, things have gotten worse.
"Okta has revealed that its system had a vulnerability that allowed people to log into an account without having to provide the correct password. Okta bypassed password authentication if the account had a username that had 52 or more characters. Further, its system had to detect a "stored cache key" of a previous successful authentication, which means the account's owner had to have previous history of logging in using that browser"
engadget.com/apps/okta-vulnera…
in reply to Schmaker
Já teď nic vůbec nestíhal, ani běh. Dorazil jsem večer a měl toho vždy dost, ale nevzdávám to 
)
)This entry was edited (1 week ago)
Could daylight saving time ever be permanent? Where it stands in the states
"...We've had daylight saving time for longer than eight months at a time before, and it wasn't a big hit.
From February 1942 until September 1945, the U.S. took on what became known as "War Time," when Congress voted to make daylight saving time year-round during the war in an effort to conserve fuel. " "...Sunrises that could be as late as 9:30 a.m. "
usatoday.com/story/news/nation…
"...We've had daylight saving time for longer than eight months at a time before, and it wasn't a big hit.
From February 1942 until September 1945, the U.S. took on what became known as "War Time," when Congress voted to make daylight saving time year-round during the war in an effort to conserve fuel. " "...Sunrises that could be as late as 9:30 a.m. "
usatoday.com/story/news/nation…
Could daylight saving time ever be permanent? Where it stands in the states
Americans really don't like changing their clocks twice a year. But should daylight saving time become permanent? Many states say yes., USA TODAY (USA TODAY)
This entry was edited (1 week ago)
Hacked TP-Link routers at center of massive botnet used to attack Azure customers
"...Microsoft has exposed a complex network of compromised devices that Chinese hackers are using to launch highly evasive password spray attacks against Microsoft Azure customers. "
techspot.com/news/105414-tp-li…
"...Microsoft has exposed a complex network of compromised devices that Chinese hackers are using to launch highly evasive password spray attacks against Microsoft Azure customers. "
techspot.com/news/105414-tp-li…
Hacked TP-Link routers at center of massive botnet used to attack Azure customers
Microsoft has exposed a complex network of compromised devices that Chinese hackers are using to launch highly evasive password spray attacks against Microsoft Azure customers. This network,...Skye Jacobs (TechSpot)
Believe It Or Not, The Best Cola Brand We've Tasted Isn't Coke Or Pepsi
"...The winner of the showdown was actually RC Cola, or Royal Crown Cola.
RC Cola is one of the oldest soda brands still on the market, and was first started back in 1905. " thedailymeal.com/1697791/best-…
"...The winner of the showdown was actually RC Cola, or Royal Crown Cola.
RC Cola is one of the oldest soda brands still on the market, and was first started back in 1905. " thedailymeal.com/1697791/best-…
Believe It Or Not, The Best Cola Brand We've Tasted Isn't Coke Or Pepsi
During a Daily Meal product test we rated RC Cola in the number one spot due to its impressive carbonation and not overly sweet flavor profile.Jessica Fleming-Montoya (The Daily Meal)
This entry was edited (1 week ago)
in reply to Tamas G
@DevilsChild1978 you know? we haven't had RC colla in a very long time. smile. I keep forgetting about it.
The surprisingly deep reason why teens are calling everyone “chat.” "...The term, originally used in contexts like “chat, this real?” to “chat, am I cooked?” stems from the world of Twitch and Discord, as streamers ask their audience for clarification, support, and answers where viewers can communicate with the streamer through text. But now, it’s become adopted as IRL slang, used in any context, for any reason" slate.com/technology/2024/11/c…
It’s Teens’ New Favorite Word. It’s Everywhere. Maybe You Should Start Using It Too.
Teens are taking slang from the screen to the schoolyard. It’s reshaping the way that they connect with each other and the world.Steffi Cao (Slate)
United States government mulling a potential merger between Intel and AMD notebookcheck.net/United-State…
United States government mulling a potential merger between Intel and AMD
The United States Commerce Department is figuring out ways to keep Intel afloat after it posted $16.3 billion in losses this quarter. One of the options includes a merger with market rivals such as AMD and Marvell.Anil Ganti (Notebookcheck)
I had no idea that North Carolina allows spouses to share a voting booth. Both must consent to that, but of course an abused (or otherwise scared or intimidated) spouse isn't going to complain.
ncnewsline.com/2024/10/25/alam…
h/t @MissGayle @Burnt_Veggies @cafechatnoir
#uspol #voting #NorthCarolina
Alamance County voters raise concerns about spouses sharing polling booths • NC Newsline
Some Alamance County voters at the polls were shocked to see spouses sharing voting booths — though the practice is legal in North Carolina.Brandon Kingdollar (NC Newsline)
As OpenAI and Meta introduce LLM-driven searchbots, I'd like to once again remind people that neither LLMs nor chatbots are good technology for information access.
A thread, with links:
Chirag Shah and I wrote about this in two academic papers:
2022: dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3498366…
2024: dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3649468
We also have an op-ed from Dec 2022:
iai.tv/articles/all-knowing-ma…
>>
All-knowing machines are a fantasy | Emily M. Bender and Chriag Shah
The idea of an all-knowing computer program comes from science fiction and should stay there. Despite the seductive fluency of ChatGPT and other language models, they remain unsuitable as sources of knowledge.IAI TV - Changing how the world thinks
7 Signs You Have Malware and How to Get Rid of It pcmag.com/how-to/7-signs-you-h…
Tamas G reshared this.
in reply to David Goldfield
I love how the first sign mentioned on the site is pop up adds, then I have to go past an add to keep reading.
Christmas Music Starts Early Across The Country radioinsight.com/headlines/285…
Christmas Music Starts Early Across The Country
The holiday season has begun en masse across the country with a larger number of stations than in the pastLance Venta (Radioinsight.com)
in reply to David Goldfield
Hi. Do you have an email list you post a lot of these tidbits. Sometimes I don't feel social media, but I'd like to see these things.
in reply to Eden Linnea
@EdenLinnea Hi, and thanks for asking. Many of the items that I post to Mastodon covering blindness technology get distributed to my Tech-VI announcement list. There are some items that I post to Mastodon which don't get posted to Tech-VI, as some of them are out of scope for that list.
To subscribe via email, send email to
tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io
The main page, which contains an RSS feed and a message archive, is available at
www.groups.io/g/tech-vi
To subscribe via email, send email to
tech-vi+subscribe@groups.io
The main page, which contains an RSS feed and a message archive, is available at
www.groups.io/g/tech-vi
From Accessible Electronics: Early Black Friday Unbeatable Deal on Victor Reader Stream 3 Under $500! groups.io/g/tech-vi/message/80…
Hi all, it's me, An Old. Quick election reminders:
- If you are in line before the polls officially close, STAY IN LINE. You are entitled to cast your vote.
- DO NOT TRUST calls/texts/posts/TikToks from now until Weds. Deepfakes will be rampant.
Classic scams:
"your voting location has moved"
"your group votes on Weds" <- old Jim Crow shit
"have your payment ready" <- poll taxes are illegal
Vote! No later than Tuesday, even by mail! Demand a provisional ballot if anything goes wrong!
#USPol
Ooh, wish I had the unlock code for this one, but it was my free article for the week.
Polish Radio Station Uses A.I. to Interview Dead Nobel Laureate nytimes.com/2024/11/03/world/e…
Polish Radio Station Uses A.I. to Interview Dead Nobel Laureate nytimes.com/2024/11/03/world/e…
in reply to Tamas G
I wonder sometimes if it’s an AI-produced story. I just can’t find, for the best of me, the actual audio samples. I did find the original interview though, I mean in text! It’s funny, not funny.
People who wear glasses are disabled, BTW. We need disability aids to function as an active part of society. If you wear glasses, you are disabled; your disability is just one that happens to be highly (if not totally) accommodated. It is generally considered reasonable to insist that you need your glasses and cannot cope well without them, and glasses are readily available and prescriptions for them not heavily gated. Touching or taking them without your permission is considered rude and cruel.
in reply to Xauri'EL Zwaan
This is by far the most popular social media post I have ever written lol. To be clear, as a person who wears glasses myself, I am well aware that financial cost is a major barrier to many people having glasses. These things tend to lie on a spectrum. The main point is how normalized glasses are, how wearing them rarely even excites comment. People who wear glasses aren't "brave" or "inspirational". To most, we're just treated as normal people living our lives
More and more as I try to untie myself from giant social networks, I find myself wishing that Fediverse software like Mastodon wasn't so seemingly allergic to algorithms. I don't think it should be algorithm driven, but if I'm new and I want to get a feed full of content that does have engagement, I think that should be possible. If I want to follow people who my friends follow, I shouldn't have to just look through all their followers lists. I don't know how you strike a balance and avoid excluding people, but it sometimes feels like we're too far in the other direction. I don't want to have to give people an entire checklist of ways to find people and content once they join, because then those people will be more resistant to joining. There has to be a happier medium between mindless algorithm-assisted scrolling and what we have now. And yes, I did post this with the expectation that people will tell me I'm wrong and I welcome that.
in reply to Simon Jaeger (Procrastodon)
I think the “explore” tab does some of that, but I think I know what you mean. Some twitterness would be nice, I mean, the good old Twitterness, not the Elon one.
in reply to victor tsaran
@vick21 You're right about the explore tab. There are some interesting functions in there that I could probably spend more time using.
*sigh* submitted an issue asking for some accessibility work to be done to a software package and the response was "there's no audience for this, someone who actually uses a screen reader should submit this request". I am definitely not the person to reply to this and have no idea how to do so in a reasonable manner.
This entry was edited (1 week ago)
in reply to NV Access
@NVAccess @nellie_m @pixelate @FreakyFwoof I just realized y'all are the NVDA devs; I don't have access to a Windows machine, so I've never tried it, but I've heard great things! Thanks for what you do, and thanks for being on fedi, it's exciting to see you here!
Welcome to the RB family, Innertune 🥳
apt.izzysoft.de/packages/com.m…
InnerTune is a fork of InnerTune – a Material 3 YouTube Music client for Android.
Thanks to Malopieds (the author of this fork) for making this possible 
#reproducibleBuilds #IzzyOnDroid
„InnerTune“ – IzzyOnDroid F-Droid Repository
A fork of InnerTune, a Material 3 YouTube Music client for AndroidIzzyOnDroid App Repo
Not if you delete your fucking account. #OneWeirdTrick press.coop/@Gizmodo/1134213933…
Gizmodo :press: (@Gizmodo@press.coop)
X Says It Has Begun Rolling Out Controversial Change to Block Function Now when you block someone they won't be able to interact with you, but they can still view your posts. #press https://gizmodo.press.coop
NVDA 2024.4 doesn't seem to read auto-completion info in chrome anymore, anyone have ideas as to what I can do to fix this? I hope it's just a me thing.
in reply to Andre Louis
@twynn Thanks Andre, I can replicate on Gmail's login page - what site are you looking at? I originally tried with the autocomplete suggestions on google.com and that DOES seem to work. I created an issue at: github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issue…
Please do comment on the issue with any extra info there.
Autocomplete suggestions not read in Chrome · Issue #17360 · nvaccess/nvda
Steps to reproduce: Go to the GMail sign in page Start typing an address you have used before so it offers a drop down list of suggestions down arrow through the suggestions Actual behavior: At Ste...GitHub
in reply to NV Access
@NVAccess @twynn While we're talking about changes in chromium, is anyone else getting the weird thing where cursor movement by caracter in edit fields is just, slow and half the time reports the wrong character now? Especially on DIscord I notice this, with regular text mind you not mentions and fancy embeds.
in reply to x0
@x0 @NVAccess @twynn I've seen this behavior more in Chromium-based UIs (like Slack) if there's a multiline field with multiple lines of text inserted. Depending on which line you are on, I think the cursoring can be offset by one or two positions, which is interesting and I suspect may have to do with the factors of how the line breaks are calculated in relation to the cursoring, but it's just a hunch for me.
in reply to Tamas G
Or text wrapping. That's probably a separate issue though. I know it behaves a bit strangely when you try to focus a user mention in discord but like, it would. It's a button in an edit field.
This entry was edited (1 week ago)
in reply to NV Access
@NVAccess @twynn Yeah with respect, that is bullsh**. Reporting an issue on GitHub requires a bunch of extra steps, including:
- Navigating to the right repository;
- Finding the new isue button;
- Picking the correct issue type;
- Figuring out the issue creation interface;
- Filling out the issue template which involves figuring out what bits can be removed and what bits can't be;
- providing logs/other reproduction evidence.
While it is absolutely true that all of this is possible and for a lot of folks not all that hard, it is also true that for a significant amount of users this is way, way more than they want to bother with. I don't have a solution to this, perhaps a UI for users to report issues from within NVDA might lower the entry threshold, but let's not be dismissive about the complexities of filing/interacting with GitHub issues here
in reply to Florian
This explanation is already complicated. With respect, you guys need a simpler way of bug reporting. Especially with the amount of people who use NVDA. Not everyone is going to bother creating a github account. It also goes from the fact that, github is complicated for most people who don't have knowledge of how a lot of things work. Github is complicated even for some of us who know how to report bugs. Let's just be realistic. It might've worked before, but it's not going to work that well nowadays.
in reply to Winter blue tardis🇧🇬🇭🇺
@tardis @zersiax @NVAccess @twynn yeah, I think the cognative load to use GitHub is quite high if you are not coming from the dev space and know some of it already. I get that this is just a comment on an issue and you are amazing for pre-creating it at 17360, but for someone to go through account creation and profile config just to add a single comment is a bit too much. And yeah, sadly a good solution will probably be harder to implement.
in reply to Florian
@zersiax In fairness, 90% of that is NOT true IN THIS CASE given my suggestion to Andre to look on GitHubt was AFTER I had created an issue with the details he provided, and I included a direct link to the issue.
I'm not arguing that GitHub is the easiest site for everyone to use - but in this case, I did do most of the work.
The reason for encouraging people to use GitHub is that is where the developers are - the ones who fix issues. If they have a question, they won't find you here to ask.
in reply to NV Access
@NVAccess You still need a GitHub account to begin with, which a lot of non-developers quite simply have no use for whatsoever apart from meeting NVDA in the middle, you need to work how the interface works which has like 1000 things in it that the average non-developer isn't going to need/use, find your way to the correct issue which at times is easy if you're given a direct link but at times really isn't, etc.
GitHub's great for developers and open-source enthusiasts. You're not dealing with developers. You're dealing with end users who in no way agreed, nor want, to help you develop a tool they need to get work done. You're dealing with people who are happy they got a free alternative to a 1000-dollar+ product that nevertheless needs to work exactly like they want it to, and that's not a fair hand, but it's the one you're dealt. So yes, you did most of the work, but the remaining work is going to make users not bother because you're asking plumbers to sign up for MIT
GitHub's great for developers and open-source enthusiasts. You're not dealing with developers. You're dealing with end users who in no way agreed, nor want, to help you develop a tool they need to get work done. You're dealing with people who are happy they got a free alternative to a 1000-dollar+ product that nevertheless needs to work exactly like they want it to, and that's not a fair hand, but it's the one you're dealt. So yes, you did most of the work, but the remaining work is going to make users not bother because you're asking plumbers to sign up for MIT
in reply to Florian
It's not like reporting bugs against most paid products is any better. Try reporting a bug against an Apple product, for example. Even assuming you manage it, you have the added advantage there that it'll go into a void and you'll never know whether there was any progress on it. Users aren't required to comment on GitHub. They just shouldn't necessarily expect any progress on bugs they report if they don't. There aren't staff paid to spend hours every day making sure comments from 5000 different places end up somewhere they can be actionable.
This entry was edited (1 week ago)
in reply to Kara Goldfinch
@zersiax @KaraLG84 @NVAccess Sure, but those same people will happily figure out (and create accounts for) Facebook, Instagram, some random forum, Reddit, shopping site or whatever which is likely far less accessible. And that's entirely their prerogative. It's all a matter of priorities and that's fine.Some of the process described here is also inaccurate. There's a link to the NVDA GitHub repo in quite a lot of places, so the user doesn't have to find the repository. Users are often provided direct links to the new bug form or the issue they are interested in.
in reply to Jamie Teh
@jcsteh @KaraLG84 @NVAccess I thik forums, shopping sites etc. have far more of a ROI for the regular user, though. Forums have friends on them, reddit is a longterm thing that they can use for a whole bunch of different types of discussion, shopping sites are for buying stuff. Github ... is jsut because some developer doesn't want to meet them halfway and insists on having users make this account for maybe the one specific issue they're wanting to report/weigh in on that they may never ever need again afterwards. Not saying that never happens anywhere else but it does up the friction by a good bit
in reply to Florian
@zersiax @KaraLG84 @NVAccess I totally agree the ROI is likely lower, which is why I said it's all a matter of priorities. Maybe it just doesn't matter enough to the user to have their issue reported, and that's totally fine; that's their choice.
If we were talking about a paid product here, I might agree that it's reasonable for users to be met where they are: email, social media, whatever. If that's important to paying customers, you could have a dedicated person paid to do just that: maintain various support channels and make sure things get to the right place. But we're not talking about a paid product. Part of the expectation when you aren't paying for something should be that you don't get some of these niceties. We still want a way for users to report problems, sure, but they might have to go to just a little more effort to do that if it really matters to them.
If we were talking about a paid product here, I might agree that it's reasonable for users to be met where they are: email, social media, whatever. If that's important to paying customers, you could have a dedicated person paid to do just that: maintain various support channels and make sure things get to the right place. But we're not talking about a paid product. Part of the expectation when you aren't paying for something should be that you don't get some of these niceties. We still want a way for users to report problems, sure, but they might have to go to just a little more effort to do that if it really matters to them.
in reply to Jamie Teh
@jcsteh @zersiax @KaraLG84 Also worth mentioning that we DO meet users where they are. I did create the issue which started this thread. I recommended the user subscribe to it on GitHub in case there were any follow up questions etc, but I regularly create issues from emailed questions, social media posts etc. Try emailing Google and asking them to file an issue for you on one of their products....
in reply to NV Access
That's true. Every time I mention NVAccess to complain, no matter how frustrated and uncharitable I might be, whoever is behind this account always replies and, if it's something that should be tracked, they make an issue for me and send me the link.
This entry was edited (1 week ago)
in reply to NV Access
For all Q was a little excentric, he did have an in-app feedback reporting system. Perhaps building that into the help menu would get more issues reported in a concise and informative way. Hell, build it as an addon and crowd-fund it in the way NVDA Remote was if needed. I'm a power user of a lot of products, and I'm not here to be made to feel incompetent just because I found git-hub beyond irritating to use as a non-developer. I have things to do and need to do them. If getting such a venture off the ground costs money, I'll be the first to donate to something meaningful, if that means I don't have to go near git-ub. I am not stupid, but git-hub has a way of making me feel such. I don't at all appreciate it.
This entry was edited (4 days ago)
in reply to Andre Louis
@NVAccess @zersiax @KaraLG84 Putting maintenance and development cost aside, an in-app system isn't going to fix some of the issues identified here (granted not necessarily by you), for example the need to create an account. There just can't be a system without accounts these days given rampant spam and abuse on the internet.
Beyond that, I think it's constructive here to think more specifically about reporting or commenting on an NVDA issue, vs "using GitHub" in general. The former is a subset of the latter, but a much simpler subset. For example, if I open a direct link to the new bug page:
github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issue…
I'm immediately popped into a text box for the issue title. The next text box (just a few tab stops away) is the comment box, where you fill in the questions provided.
Similarly, if I open an existing issue, for example:
github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issue…
The only text box on the page is for a new comment, with the "Comment" button nearby. Existing comments are all marked with headings so you can navigate to and read them.
So are there specific problems with these two forms or is it more that you find these direct links hard to discover? If it's the former, it'd be good to understand what, not least because we wouldn't want to repeat the same problem with a new system. If it's the latter, perhaps we can do better at making sure those links are easy to find.
Beyond that, I think it's constructive here to think more specifically about reporting or commenting on an NVDA issue, vs "using GitHub" in general. The former is a subset of the latter, but a much simpler subset. For example, if I open a direct link to the new bug page:
github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issue…
I'm immediately popped into a text box for the issue title. The next text box (just a few tab stops away) is the comment box, where you fill in the questions provided.
Similarly, if I open an existing issue, for example:
github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issue…
The only text box on the page is for a new comment, with the "Comment" button nearby. Existing comments are all marked with headings so you can navigate to and read them.
So are there specific problems with these two forms or is it more that you find these direct links hard to discover? If it's the former, it'd be good to understand what, not least because we wouldn't want to repeat the same problem with a new system. If it's the latter, perhaps we can do better at making sure those links are easy to find.
in reply to Jamie Teh
@jcsteh @NVAccess @zersiax @KaraLG84 I believe I was tasked with reporting issues on something called JamTabba back in 2008 or so. I made an account at that time on github, and of course that's a damn long time ago. I attempted to report issues as requested and ran into I don't know how many problems doing so. Admittedly it kind of tainted my view of github as a platform, and downloading from it in the intervening years hasn't really helped with that. I'm sure they change the name of the button every other week. From Code to Assets, I'm almost sure it was called Master at some point, etc. It's like going to the supermarket, where everything moves from place to place just when you started to understand it. With this particular issue, I admit I didn't once click the link and that's on me. My assumption was that it hadn't gotten any better. I take full responsibility for not looking into it beyond that.
in reply to Andre Louis
@NVAccess @zersiax @KaraLG84 I get it. Your opinion of something gets tainted and it takes a long time to undo that. I'm no exception. I'm also not here to defend GitHub. They still have a lot of work to do. On the other hand, no one is asking you to use the other parts of GitHub, just the issue creation and comment forms, and as far as I can tell, those are pretty reasonable these days, regardless of how they were how ever long ago. Of course, anyone may disagree, but it'd be helpful to understand *why* they disagree, because the first piece in figuring out a solution is clearly understanding the problems we have.
in reply to Andre Louis
@zersiax @NVAccess @KaraLG84 If I recall correctly, the NV Access site has a link to the GitHub project, but I'm not sure if we have direct links to the new bug and new feature forms. If we don't, that would probably be helpful, perhaps even in the NVDA Help menu or similar. I certainly agree there are areas of GitHub that are very suboptimal in terms of accessibility. Even the page to choose the type of new issue report has no useful headings, which is ridiculous, hence my suggestion of direct links. And yes, the releases section of GitHub is confusing to non-devs - most people don't know what the hell an asset is - but NVDA users are never asked to use any of that.
in reply to Jamie Teh
@KaraLG84 @NVAccess @zersiax Going beyond even that, I understand some users will struggle to provide steps to reproduce, expected results and the like. Unfortunately, the only way to solve that is to have someone at the other end continually following up with questions and guiding you through the process. That might be reasonable for a paid product, but it just doesn't scale for a free one. Maybe something to consider would be paid email support in addition to the existing telephone support option to allow for things like that. Just to be clear, I don't have anything to do with operations at NVA these days, so any suggestions I make here carry no real weight; they're just ideas.
in reply to Andre Louis
thanks for saying that. If tech makes us feel super dumb and stupid, then it's not intuitive to use. I understand github is for developers, but the reporting page, or whatever it is considered, should be intuitive to use, not only to developers, but to the average person as well. and currently, github's structure is everything but, useable...
in reply to Florian
@zersiax @jcsteh @KaraLG84 Whatever reporting system we used would almost certainly involve the user creating an account. Try reporting an issue against Windows, or Chrome, Firefox, any other piece of software and you generally need to have it create an account on often something which is unique to that product. Ok you may not use GitHub for anything but NVDA, but it's no harder to use than anything else and it IS accessible.
in reply to NV Access
@NVAccess @zersiax @jcsteh @KaraLG84 I'm sorry, but I echo Florian. average user does not care/does not have the technical knowledge to work around github. Hell, I consider myself a fairly technical user, and I find submitting issues on github annoying at best. With things like jaws, all they have to do is send an email. Now, I know that would not work with NVAccess, but something simpler would benifit the screen reader tremendously.
in reply to Yadiel Sotomayor
@NVAccess @zersiax @jcsteh @KaraLG84 A huge reason why JAWS is still very much the default in affluent countries is how technical NVDA and its documentation tends to be. Especially for new users. Every student I have worked with mentions that. There is no doubt NVDA is superior in many ways, but until NVDA becomes more approachable, it will mainly be used by highly technical people, or those who do not have any other choice.
in reply to Yadiel Sotomayor
@ysotomayor @zersiax @jcsteh @KaraLG84 That is feedback I have not heard previously! Our Basic Training for NVDA tends to be highly praised for how readable and well structured it is. We have also recently included a quick start guide in the use guide and as previously mentioned, we will create issues if you email or message us (and I'm engaged in this thread). I'm really not sure what more you want us to do to be approachable and easy to contact? (Genuine question)
in reply to NV Access
@ysotomayor @zersiax @jcsteh @KaraLG84 Yadiel - I am genuinely keen to find out what the problem with our training material you have found is? Please do reply or reach out at info@nvaccess.org. We've only had good feedback on how easy it is to use, so I would love to find out how Basic Training for NVDA is too technical for your users please? (I can't fix it without understanding what is wrong). Thank you very much for sharing!
in reply to NV Access
@NVAccess @ysotomayor @zersiax @jcsteh @KaraLG84 For what it's worth, I truly think the training material is clearly written and informative. It's very well done.
in reply to Jonathan Mosen
@JonathanMosen @ysotomayor @zersiax @jcsteh @KaraLG84 Thanks Jonathan, that means a lot coming from you - and we've only ever had good feedback about it too.
in reply to NV Access
@NVAccess @ysotomayor @zersiax @jcsteh @KaraLG84 Seconding the very high quality of the training material. I'd regularly recommend them to my students after a lesson to reenforce the learning.
Well worth paying for.
Well worth paying for.
in reply to Sean Randall
@cachondo @NVAccess @ysotomayor @zersiax @jcsteh Thirded. I have the Word and excel modules and they're fantastic. Also not forgetting the included user guide. Years ago I think the object nav section needed work but they clearly sorted it out since.
in reply to Eden Linnea
@EdenLinnea @cachondo @ysotomayor @zersiax @jcsteh @KaraLG84 @JamiePauls @jpellis2008 @jscholes
Thank you so much everyone! It's great to get positive feedback and even more heartening to know that what we do IS worthwhile to people and helping people!
Thank you again and have a great week everyone :)
in reply to NV Access
@NVAccess @ysotomayor @zersiax @jcsteh @KaraLG84 I think that argument will be used against NVDA until someone starts setting up podcasts and YouTube videos like Freedom scientific has for JAWS. These podcasts/videos are no less technical than the NVDA and the JAWS training materials are NOT user friendly in themselves, but there is the perception that they are user friendly.
in reply to Michael Ryan Hunsaker
@amazing_mrhunsaker @ysotomayor @zersiax @jcsteh @KaraLG84 I wonder if the person suggesting the material is too technical simply wasn't aware of the training material at all, so maybe there is work we can do to better promote the fact there IS training material for people to use to learn NVDA.
in reply to NV Access
@NVAccess @ysotomayor @zersiax @jcsteh @KaraLG84 perhaps. I never had trouble finding it. I just think a lot of opinion about ease/difficulty of JAWS and NVDA has more to say about the person speaking than the materials themselves. My colleagues tell me NVDA is hard to use—but they base that on their assumption of JAWS as the “gold standard”. It takes a LOT of work for them to see that NVDA is not only valid but better for certain tasks
in reply to NV Access
@NVAccess @ysotomayor @zersiax @jcsteh @KaraLG84 Hi, I find the NVDA training material very accessible and easy to use. This bearing in mind that I do not consider myself an advanced computer user. thank you very much @NVAccess for this wonderful software. Keep up the excellent job.
NV Access reshared this.
in reply to Naeem_1986
@Naeem_1986 @ysotomayor @zersiax @jcsteh @KaraLG84 Thank you so much! We endeavoured to make the training material easy to use for anyone, including those who aren't advanced computer users. Thank you for your kind words!
in reply to NV Access
@NVAccess @zersiax @jcsteh @KaraLG84 wow, what a huge thread this has turned into.
The cool new trend in open source software is private Discord servers. GitHub is public and searchable - you can even add a thumbs up to an issue.
As a developer, I prefer to get bugs handled by a customer service team and feature requests handled by the sales and product teams. I would very much like to not ask my users any questions.
That just goes to show 1. GitHub isn’t ideal for anybody and 2. other systems have their own problems, not the least of which are accessibility and the impact of layers between users and developers.
For what it’s worth, I know I could call NV Access for support at a pretty reasonable rate. If somebody has a problem and talks about it on here, another user may take the initiative and replicate and report it. There are also mailing lists.
We can, at the same time, recognize that there are constraints that make GitHub the least bad option for NV Access, from a customer support side, and that it’s neither an insurmountable obstacle nor the only option to get support.
in reply to Florian
@zersiax I agree to that. I am a Dev myself but rarely fill Issues on github because i am to worried to do things wrong. Once I tried filling an Issue the Project emediately closed it without a good Explanation, just throwing Keywords at me. @NVAccess @FreakyFwoof @twynn
#time please boost far and wide, thanks
- year-round standard time (67%, 867 votes)
- year-round daylight saving time (22%, 294 votes)
- keep switching back and forth (9%, 128 votes)
Who will win?
- the vacuum cleaner (89%, 33 votes)
- the speakers playing while I vacuum (10%, 4 votes)
in reply to Jeff Fortin T.
in reply to Federico Mena Quintero
@nekohayo I tend to pause everything when I use cutting tools. I don't want lose fingers with the table saw.
Mikołaj Hołysz
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