I have a lot of respect for #DeltaChat (@delta); By all accounts they provide a good looking client and a homogenize experience across platforms. Users absolutely don’t need to care about the underlying protocol!
However there is no way, shape or form in that IMAP+Submission is a more suitable stack for instant messaging than #XMPP.
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Matthias
in reply to Daniel Gultsch • • •Deltachat needs some kind of dumb protocol to exchange data. Currently it is imap, it may or may not be combined with other protocols in the future. It could be anything else. It can not be directly compared to xmpp as deltachat only needs imap to exchange data.
In other words, both are hard to compare because:
* in xmpp, the magic happens server-side.
* in deltachat, the magic happens client-side.
ArcaneChat
in reply to Daniel Gultsch • • •if it works, it works 😁
@delta
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Steven Reed
in reply to ArcaneChat • • •Мяу Машина 4.0
in reply to ArcaneChat • • •holga
in reply to Daniel Gultsch • • •Radasbona
in reply to Daniel Gultsch • • •Peter Vágner
in reply to Radasbona • •Still with imap idle in place the battery and network impact is minimal so it's not seen as very high priority thing. For example there is an email client called #fairEmail which does the same thing, keeping the imap idle connections open whenever it's able to and it's working fine. Within email app it's difficult if not impossible to add push messaging support unless you have control of the server side provider or you wish to trade your privacy.
S1m
in reply to Peter Vágner • • •Peter Vágner likes this.
Radasbona
in reply to Peter Vágner • • •imap idle unfortunately works very unreliably if you only use the app every 1-2 weeks.
I'm not a developer, but wouldn't that be the solution for the chatmail servers?
ietf.org/archive/id/draft-goug…
The IMAP WEBPUSH extension
www.ietf.orgArcaneChat
Unknown parent • • •ArcaneChat
Unknown parent • • •> My question is rather: How can #XMPP market itself better to people who want to build instant messaging solutions.
my humble opinion: I would still pick #deltachat / chatmail core to build my client if I had to start from scratch today, with #xmpp I just have a protocol, with delta chat I don't actually need to use the #email protocol at all, only the core library that takes care of dealing with networking and #encryption while all I have to do is to create the UI
ArcaneChat
in reply to ArcaneChat • • •ArcaneChat
Unknown parent • • •@menel that sounds like what I was proposing, now you need the xmpp community to embrace such approach,
don't get me wrong I would still not pick xmpp because there groups are centralized/depending on the server, too much dependency on the servers, with delta chat I already have the easy to use core and no dependency on server and soon even multiple servers can be used at the same time, your account is portable accross servers, xmpp is far behind there
@daniel
Patrick
Unknown parent • • •Peter Vágner
Unknown parent • •ArcaneChat likes this.
Menel :xmpp:
in reply to ArcaneChat • • •borogove.dev/ too
Borogove
borogove.devpixelschubsi
in reply to ArcaneChat • • •I switched from e-Mail to XMPP for chat on my phone a decade ago, precisely because it worked much better on poor 2G links (even when using roster and presence). Google at the time did the same (Google Mail app on Android delivered messages via XMPP).
pixelschubsi
in reply to ArcaneChat • • •"I think facts are talking by themselves"
Fact is: Today, XMPP has more active devices using it than IMAP. XMPP has more users using it for chat than Chatmail.
The problem is that most users and by extension most developers simply don't know they are in fact happy XMPP users, whereas IMAP is often shoveled in people's face (because you have to select the protocol when setting up your e-Mail client).