For refining #deltachat UIs and UX we are looking at many other messengers regularly. But we are curious. Which messenger UX/UI do you like most and suggest we take cues from?
Hey folks. I've noticed #DeltaChat hasn't got a page in #Wikipedia. Do you know sources which would prove its notability so we could create a page for it?
Boosts appreciated. If you don't know sources, someone else might.
Two of our teams just gave talks at the @passthesaltcon 2025 conference in Lille:
@Xeniax tells the story of "federated messaging" waves and her usable security research, emphasizing "availability" as a key issue passthesalt.ubicast.tv/videos/… --
@hpk starts off with prioritizing usable security and walks through #chatmail transport layer security goals and #deltachat end-point security status, upcoming releases and prospective work on improving metadata and other goals passthesalt.ubicast.tv/videos/…
With the current massive user migration from X and Meta to decentralized social media such as Mastodon, the interest in federated communication infrastructures is gaining traction.
#DeltaChat evolved according to needs of people under repression and continues to do so. The more ignorant and exchangeable we make #chatmail relays, the less their operators have to worry. Having metadata-less, fast and cheap instant messaging relays, that can also operate when 99% of the Internet vanishes in a region, is a key goal. Some way to go still but, already now, is there any other real-world solution that provides better service in internet-repressed regions in 2025?
Everyone returns to email in the end. We are there already. #whatsapp wants you to add your email to secure your account ... despite all the nay sayers and numerous well funded attempts and claims to kill #email not even WA can do it. #deltachat #chatmail and #webxdc are about deep collab between people, projects and operators to evolve email from within. It is not just about SMTP and IMAP and MIME and OpenPGP which are all exchangeable and can be improved ... Which we set out to do. Cheers.
#deltachat is secure against server-side group membership changes but for a very different reason than #signal which keeps encrypted group membership data in a central store.
Delta Chat has _no_ central store but implements a rigidly tested #p2p group membership model where servers play no role github.com/chatmail/models/tre…
Both signal and delta chat are safe against recently published attacks against #whatsapp that can add members to chats, breaking end to end encryption. arstechnica.com/security/2025/…
@Winter blue tardis🇧🇬🇭🇺 @Jayson Smith @Nick Giannak III If you are still testing deltachat, I managed to run my #chatmail relay and it's working for a few weeks for me. I have created a groupchat where I'd like to invite other screen reader users. As I have posted a few times recently, #deltachat people do really care about screen reader #a11y so while testing and something is not working the way you would expect lets describe it in details, and report it properly.
Comparing #XMPP against #email protocols is too limited. What sets #deltachat apart is *vertical integration* and being driven by UI/UX considerations. Cross-platform Apps and Bots use the Rust core library which connects with #chatmail relays and classic email servers based on a higher level API -- abstracting over SMTP, MIME, #OpenPGP etc. See chatmail.at
#webxdc apps in turn use an even higher level stable API abstracting over email/xmpp/... see webxdc.org/docs/
Chatmail provides FOSS infrastructure for interoperable, secure, speedy and reliable end-to-end encrypted messaging. Check out clients as Arcane Chat, Bots or Delta Chat today!
our friends over at @rpgp just published a monster milestone, humbly tagged 0.16 😍 with
- streaming decryption and encryption
- post-quantum-cryptography
- API streamlining.
#rPGP is a full Rust implementation of #openpgp which counts among the fastest and most compliant implementations today, and includes security audits. Note: #deltachat uses a restricted subset of OpenPGP, and follows best practices (eg using the same ed25519 keys implementation as #signal) github.com/rpgp/rpgp/
#deltachat Desktop can now run on #Firefox and Safari, entirely avoiding #Electron and Chromium! It's an intended side-effect of the "porting Desktop to #Tauri" effort led by @treefit which aims to provide a non-Electron packaged version of the Desktop. Here is a video and deep dive into what's working on regular browsers now, and what's missing for a full Web version: delta.chat/en/2025-05-22-brows…
As part of the project to port Delta Chat Desktop from Electron to Tauri1, we’ll showcase a setup where our Desktop app runs in Firefox and does not depend on Electron or Chromium anymore. This vid...
1 cent per five years .... is the current marginal hosting cost for a #chatmail address, with which #deltachat apps facilitate world-wide private messaging including interactive #webxdc apps that run end-to-end encrypted in any chat group.
<1 Million EUR per year is the estimated marginal hosting costs for 350 Million EU citizens. Such scaling requires, however, research and development, including careful UX and #cryptography work. Related writing from @gordon
"if your social media network can go down it is not decentralized" they say and rightfully so. Same is true for much other infrastructure ... Energy, water, internet utilities ... And of course messaging. If your messenger can go down it's not decentralized. During 2025 we aim to make #deltachat and #chatmail infrastructure in particular into the most resilient and mass-user accessible private messenging utility out there ... If it isn't already :)
The trajectory of E2E-encryption is about de-platforming: There shall be no central machines that can control the edges/peers, and the social groups and virtual centers they freely form.
Our #deltachat R&D around #chatmail relays and #webxdc apps all aim to realize such a "zero-platforms" fully E2E-encrypted interaction model. However, this is *not* just about cryptographic cleverness. Rather it is about usable anti-authoritarian designs, as explicitly stated in January delta.chat/en/2025-01-23-webxd…
How can we evolve and deploy web apps without allowing developers or operators to become a “billionaire in the middle”? There are many ways to try to address this challenge and some involve the tec...
I said it before on Mastodon. I'm reposting this again. Comparing #DeltaChat and #Matrix together, if you want hassle free and consistent messenger for private #E2EE chats, don't go for Matrix. DeltaChat is way better.
However, if you want something like a public forum, or a public chatroom, don't go for DeltaChat. Matrix is way better suited for that. And DeltaChat does not support public groups at all. In DeltaChat groups, there is no admin or moderator and everyone have got permission to remove or add the others.
I think I have to write a longer post on my personal blog about these two, comparing them together.
PS: Another Matrix encryption bug few minutes ago triggered repost of this.
How does it factor in that on #deltachat there are many apps that can be used in a chat without requiring a login or even a privacy policy ... And the apps all work like cryptpad but automatically and without requiring any server side hosting?
Editing documents and checklists and calendars are all safely end-to-end encrypted without a server and anyone can write new #webxdc apps permission free.
streamed yesterday: one-hour german #chaosradio @cccfr freiburg feature at @RDL with a deep-dive conversation about #deltachat origins, what it has and hasn't to do with e-mail, protection against server compromise, phone based compared to e-mail networking, how to conspire for baking cheese cakes, authoritarianism and sovereignty, protest and organization, how to arrange for shopping and checklists in chats ... and fun music :)
Can we please stop with #XMPP's supposed "very" fragmentation? That's the kind of cheap shots that annoy me. Just like summoning the almighty gtalk that doomed us all.
First, is it that bad? (myeah? "It depends")
And second, you're bound to hit some level of fragmentation as long as your policy is to allow various independent implementations on the network. IMO the *only* reason you're not fragmented *yet* is because you provide a single implementation across platforms.
#XMPP also has some of these, the first example that comes to mind being #Snikket (snikket.org).
I am smitten with DeltaChat... DeltaChat has been making massive strides lately and I think you should consider using it as your full time secure messenger.
🔹 Sync deletion of messages and chats across devices 🔸 Page sized text editor for longer messages 🔹 Webxdc: Notifications (and more) 🔸 Improved integration into UT (ContentHub import/share)
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Release cycle completed. Please update so we can initiate the next release round with a long awaited feature ;) Generally delta apps are compatible to all currently released apps and because 15+ app stores come with all kinds of …
The downside of our project approach was that we often got experts being very dismissive on re-using email and #OpenPGP ... and there still is some opposition which often subsides when actually trying #deltachat and #chatmail, looking at security audits and our strong usable security focus.
There may also be surprising upsides. The UK "Online Safety Bill" which attacks end-to-end encryption integrity seems to not apply for ... e-mail. Because everyone knows, e-mail is unencrypted, right? :)
Last #deltachat releases introduced stable #p2p group membership not found in any other messenger. Members can add/remove peers also while being offline, and when everything comes online again, everyone has the same consistent membership view. We formalized and ran a simulation model using #TLA+ (invented by Leslie Lamport of vector clock fame):
With #deltachat #chatmail and #webxdc developments we aim to instigate a new modern foundation for secure E-Mail and a resilient Web without platforms. We are building a kind of #minecraft system for modern decentralized messaging.
But who are we building it for?
For all who need reliable trustable means of modern private communication.
While our work needs hackers and experts it's not designed for them. @tante raises interesting and important related thoughts tante.cc/2025/03/03/who-is-fre…
For a while I have been arguing that maybe there are some issues with the whole “Open*” movements, their founding myths and ideologies (see for example my talk at Fluconf). This criticism comes from a place of love.
Ich bin begeistert von #WebXDC und #DeltaChat. Es hat mich einen längeren Abend gekostet, aus webxdc.js und jspreadsheet.js eine funktionierende App zum Teilen einer Tabelle in @delta zu bauen. Mein Anteil: 50 Zeilen HTML mit etwas JavaScript codeberg.org/phormanns/shareta…
and now that you talk about young people, in several places people are not even allowed to get a SIM card at all until certain age, so apps like Signal that depend on phone numbers are a non-go, while I have seen several people using DeltaChat with their children, ex:
Onboarded my 12yo niece to @delta@chaos.social yesterday. They were looking for a solution to chat with her peer group split between iOS and Android, many of whom don't have sim cards in their devices (+ parents rightly resistant to use big social ap…
@adbenitez Well the thing I don't care for with #DeltaChat is that it uses email as its underlying transport mechanism. That, to me, just seems like the wrong approach for a chat client, for a number of reasons. If you can run your own email server it might be fine, but I have no desire to do that.
I really recommend you to give a try to #DeltaChat anonymous login without any phone number or any private data required, you can create as many accounts and add as many devices as you want, all work smoothly no encryption problems with multi-device etc and it has a better interface than #matrix on the level of #WhatsApp and #Telegram super user-friendly and painless to onboard family and friends
And you LITERALLY own your data and can browse it and search it offline
@spla +1 for Deltachat. Requires an auto-crypt-compatible email address. @Tutanota , would you please add #deltachat compatible auto-crypt goodness to your offerings?
PS: I have tuta, proton, and posteo.net email addresses (and thanks for the free service!). I pay for, and favor the posteo.net one the most. Why? Because of the auto-crypt support. (BTW: I am not paid in any way to endorse one over the other.)
#deltachat Basically, email is just a messenger standard. The normal user interface of email clients imitates classic letter writing. DeltaChat proves that you can just as easily use a modern messenger UI.
