Otevřeli jsme hlasování o přednáškách. Vyberte si, co chcete na LinuxDays slyšet. Máte na to týden, hlasování bude uzavřeno v pondělí 9. září, pak sestavíme program. linuxdays.cz/2024/hlasovani/
I need feedback from sighted people about the website for my open-source project.
Here's the current version, using a third-party theme; I know the typography on the home page has problems: accesskit.dev/
And here's my proposed new version, using a minimalist template and CSS derived from an existing site (I stripped it down quite a bit): preview.accesskit.dev/
My main collaborator says the new appearance is from a past era. What do you think? Is it off-putting?
I removed all CSS rules that set the font family, size, and colors (but I'm using the color-scheme property to support dark mode), and I simplified the layout, while keeping it broadly similar to the original.
EDIT: sorry I was looking at old version. New version with serif font may be bit bare-bones but still pleasant! My original message is not relevant:
I like both versions. Only thing I would adjust is line-height for list elements. For example 'egui' and 'Slint' links are touching each other. (Seems like font-size is 1.875rem while line-height is 1.75rem)
@platlas Well, someone convinced me that using the generic system-ui font, with sans-serif as a fallback, would make it more readable. Do you think the new font is worse? If so, what browser and OS?
I must have messed up somehow, when I checked before, I thought it was serif font. But now, I really see the system-ui (macOS) sans-serif. And it looks good.
The proposed new version looks like an improvement to me. It's barebones, and a graphic designer could probably make it look prettier. But it's easier to read.
Something this simple can never really go out of style, because it makes it clear you're not trying to keep up with fashion.
“My main collaborator says the new appearance is from a past era.” → Yes.
Someone looking for information might think they've stumbled upon some old junk that doesn't match what they're looking for and leave the page immediately.
On Firefox for Android, the new version makes me think a bit of the vanilla (no CSS) HTML styling, but the sans-serif font also makes it look more modern and not too far from the previous styling of that page.
I personally rather like it since it shouts to me that the creator has used semantic, logical HTML and hasn't overcomplicated the page - nice for me, a person who likes clean, organised things.
I do notice however that the title turns purple when visited, which I wasn't expecting.
@WebCoder49 On turning purple when visited, we're using default colors all the way. Screen readers, at least some of them, indicate when links are visited, and I figure if the browser can convey that information to sighted people too, I should let it.
Aesthetically, the site is bland in a pleasing way. This is a page that’s here to convey information, and makes that information easy to read.
I really appreciate that it appears to respect my browser’s default font size.
The h2 and h3 headings are hard to visually distinguish. It looked at first glance as though “Rust” was a new section after (instead of under) “Getting Started.”
@inthehands Ugh. If the h2 and h3 styles are hard to distinguish, that's arguably the browser's fault. But if all the browsers have that problem, e.g. because they're all keeping slavish compatibility with something Netscape did in 1994, then maybe that's on me to fix.
@inthehands All right, now I'm experimenting with putting the three subsections under "Getting started" into an actual HTML unordered list. That kind of nesting is completely valid IIUC, and screen readers can handle it just fine. And, I guess, it's actually better structured this way.
@inthehands Well, I got some negative feedback about putting those subsections in one big list, especially about the increased indentation and how that affects small screens. That was a somewhat weird structure anyway. So I backed that out and made the font size of h3 smaller. What do you think?
@ak But then if a user wants to change the font family, they have to tell the browser that they really want to override the site's settings. At the risk of misusing the language of social justice, I think that's an ableist micro-aggression.
@guites @luciano The footer has everything I wanted to keep. I decided to drop the latest posts from the home page. People who want to see what's new can follow the link to the blog. But for first-time visitors in particular, the focus is on what the project is and how to get started, information that hopefully won't become out of date quickly.
@ak I hear you about the font being hard to read in mobile Safari. Competing accessibility requirements, ugh. To clarify, is it hard to read because of the font itself, or some other issue, like the lines being too close together?
@luciano got it. Just one point: the old footer had a very sharp visual difference from the main content. The one at preview is kind of mixed in. I would consider styling it a bit so that people get a visual cue!
It’s simple, clear, obvious colours, intuitive. It looks old school but on the good way; like it follows design practices focused on usability/accessibility instead of being trendy.
The new site is definitely an improvement. Additional feedback is that the line spacing between the headers and the text below is a bit much and I don’t think the languages (eg Rust) should be indented bullet points.
@david I made the languages indented bullet points because before I did that, someone else (elsewhere in this thread) said that the level 3 headings were hard to visually distinguish from the parent level 2 heading.
Sure, but there may be other ways to distinguish them (eg H2 gets an underline). Making them a bulleted list pushes all content to the right with indent and wastes limited horizontal space on a phone screen. And logically that content feels to me less like a list and more like sections.
One other thing I noticed is the navigation links at the top. The AccessKit link is significantly larger than the others. At first it looked like “current page” gets bigger but that’s not it.
The new one is easy to read whereas the old one (at least on my Android phone) renders strangely: the line spacing is off so that some "tall" letters touch the line above.
That being said, I'd at least change the font of the new one to something like Arial, because the new one looks very dated. Since your product is a tech product, if I were a potential client I'd wonder "if the website hasn't been touched in years, is their product kept current?"
@AndrewR1234 How recently did you look at the new one? I believe the font is now set to the generic system-ui font with sans-serif as a fallback, not the default serif font.
I like the new site, it’s mostly fine and looks good. I don’t have an issue with the san serif typeface but the leading is pretty dense. If the lines could be separated a little it might be a bit more easily readable (I think that’d be line-height). This is in Safari on my iPhone 14 Pro Max.
Just checked it on my Mac in Firefox and have the same thought. Looks good, would be a little more readable if there was a bit more space between each line of type.
the font could be a big larger but the preview hands down. Yea, it is old school being just white, but AccessKit is not going to stumbled upon by anyone accidentally that would use it based on a pretty website
Artículo 57. Sistema Arbitral del Consumo. ... 4. No serán vinculantes para los consumidores los convenios arbitrales suscritos con un empresario antes de surgir el conflicto. La suscripción de dicho convenio, tendrá para el empresario la consideración de aceptación del arbitraje para la solución de las controversias derivadas de la relación jurídica a la que se refiera, siempre que el acuerdo de sometimiento reúna los requisitos exigidos por las normas aplicables.
What if I tell you that a German woman, with mental problems, as it seems ATM, pulls out a knife and starts to stab passengers in a bus, severely hurting 3 passengers. Three muslimas, fearing for their children, throw themselves at this woman, manage to wrestle the knife away from her and keep her down until the situation can be resolved? Oh? You didn't hear about that? Well. It just happened. last Friday. (article in German) t-online.de/nachrichten/panora…
Samozřejmě i první #cyklovýlet v září se neobešel bez #birellovka Pomelo je sice lepší, ale zase lepší než nic 👍 Jinak srpen by na kilometry rekordní. Skoro 1100 km, tak to byl menší osobní rekord 🤗
I don't much like this particular day but slowly time heals wounds, and it becomes slightly easier each year. I laid my mum to rest on this day in 2017. Always a bit tough this time of year.
I remember coming home from the bit after the funeral, what do you even call that, after-party? I dono. Anyway, I came home after that, and there was a sale on so I treated myself to some instruments from #Heavyocity, then I made this track I called 'Can I Borrow Tomorrow?' It's kind of a synthwave pop type thing with no words. youtu.be/53O8eHTHG90
the same airline that scolded me in front of other passengers because the company didn’t pay for me to have a seat I can fit it. But not the person in front of me that wanted to recline her seat into my knees.
I found this girl standing on the edge of the cat food bowl. At first I thought she was eating cat food, but she was really eating the *butterflies* who came to eat cat food. She caught two of them, and tried unsuccessfully to catch several flies and a yellow jacket.
Wenn ich nicht aus #Siegen wäre, wüssten ich und vermutlich alle, die den Ursprungspost teilen und liken überhaupt nicht, dass die "Passagiere" die die Angreiferin stoppten, dass diese "Passagiere" 3 junge Muslima mit Migrationshintergrund waren. Kein Wort in der @tagesschau oder dem @ZDF, dass es Muslima waren - aber der Busfahrer wird in die Wolken gelobt, dass er dem Standardprotokoll folgte und die Türen öffnete. Die Medien sind so furchtbar Mitschuld am Rechtsruck - ZUM KOTZEN!
Also!!! Čištění zubů v praxi. 2h čisté práce čištění parodontálních chobotů u KAŽDÉHO ZUBU (hloubka mezi 8,5-15mm). Mám z toho radost a doufám, že se všechno hezky chytne a stabilizuje.
@brabitom u takto kritických případů bývá ta léčba poměrně úspěšná, protože opravdu zachraňujeme každý zub. Ale pokud je ta parodontitida pouze mírná nebo mírně pokročilá, člověk si po DH myslí, že má vyhráno a stačí to. Tam to bývá tak 50 na 50 :/
It's just so god damn dumb it's hard to describe, like any single reason you could try to narrow down for how dumb it is just decomposes fractally into more dumb.
It's funny how when I am ill, my mind shoots back to things that terrified me. I caught a bit of the shipping forecast earlier and went straight back to a Torchwood audio thing that hung around my head for weeks. bbc.co.uk/programmes/b012fbw8
It's a shock to learn the news that the Living Blindfully podcast is coming to an end. It's been an incredible source of information and discussion that will be sadly and sorely missed in our community. We often say on Double Tap we need more voices out there talking from our unique perspectives so Jonathon's voice not being part of our community anymore will be a huge loss. We at Double Tap wish you well on your journey and perhaps you'll come back on one day to tell us your thoughts on the world of tech just like before. livingblindfully.social/@podca…
Woman Mailed Herself an Apple AirTag To Help Catch Mail Thieves - Several items were stolen from a woman's P.O. box. So she mailed herself a package... - yro.slashdot.org/story/24/08/3… #crime
James Scholes
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •Matt Campbell
in reply to James Scholes • • •@jscholes linebender.org/
I removed all CSS rules that set the font family, size, and colors (but I'm using the color-scheme property to support dark mode), and I simplified the layout, while keeping it broadly similar to the original.
Matt Campbell
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •platlas
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •EDIT: sorry I was looking at old version. New version with serif font may be bit bare-bones but still pleasant!
My original message is not relevant:
I like both versions. Only thing I would adjust is line-height for list elements. For example 'egui' and 'Slint' links are touching each other. (Seems like font-size is 1.875rem while line-height is 1.75rem)
Matt Campbell
in reply to platlas • • •platlas
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •Matt Campbell
in reply to platlas • • •platlas
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •Nelson
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •The proposed new version looks like an improvement to me. It's barebones, and a graphic designer could probably make it look prettier. But it's easier to read.
Something this simple can never really go out of style, because it makes it clear you're not trying to keep up with fashion.
lebout2canap ⏚
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •“My main collaborator says the new appearance is from a past era.” → Yes.
Someone looking for information might think they've stumbled upon some old junk that doesn't match what they're looking for and leave the page immediately.
uli hertlein 🇪🇺🇺🇦
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •I wouldn't call it 'off-putting', but it does feel like pure, handwritten HTML from the early 2000s.
Also, it only uses 50% of the available screen width (desktop), which always annoys me.
Hope this helps.
Oliver Geer
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •On Firefox for Android, the new version makes me think a bit of the vanilla (no CSS) HTML styling, but the sans-serif font also makes it look more modern and not too far from the previous styling of that page.
I personally rather like it since it shouts to me that the creator has used semantic, logical HTML and hasn't overcomplicated the page - nice for me, a person who likes clean, organised things.
I do notice however that the title turns purple when visited, which I wasn't expecting.
Matt Campbell
in reply to Oliver Geer • • •Oliver Geer
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •Paul Cantrell
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •Aesthetically, the site is bland in a pleasing way. This is a page that’s here to convey information, and makes that information easy to read.
I really appreciate that it appears to respect my browser’s default font size.
The h2 and h3 headings are hard to visually distinguish. It looked at first glance as though “Rust” was a new section after (instead of under) “Getting Started.”
Matt Campbell
in reply to Paul Cantrell • • •Paul Cantrell
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •It’s a tough call, and I’ve struggled with it too. I think ultimately it is on us to fix, though philosophically I don’t love that conclusion.
I suspect part of the problem on this page is that the h3 headings are very short, which makes the font size difference less apparent.
One solution that works well on this page to my eye is to indent the h3 and add a bullet:
h3:before {
content: '•';
color: gray;
margin-right: 1ex;
}
(Maybe bad for screen readers though?)
Matt Campbell
in reply to Paul Cantrell • • •Matt Campbell
in reply to Paul Cantrell • • •Paul Cantrell
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •Matt Campbell
Unknown parent • • •Matt Campbell
Unknown parent • • •guites
Unknown parent • • •Matt Campbell
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •guites
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •@luciano got it. Just one point: the old footer had a very sharp visual difference from the main content. The one at preview is kind of mixed in. I would consider styling it a bit so that people get a visual cue!
Other than that, it looks really neat
Matt Campbell
Unknown parent • • •AK
Unknown parent • • •Hugo 雨果
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •Mark W. Gabby-Li 🐌
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •David Machaj
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •Matt Campbell
in reply to David Machaj • • •David Machaj
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •Sure, but there may be other ways to distinguish them (eg H2 gets an underline). Making them a bulleted list pushes all content to the right with indent and wastes limited horizontal space on a phone screen. And logically that content feels to me less like a list and more like sections.
One other thing I noticed is the navigation links at the top. The AccessKit link is significantly larger than the others. At first it looked like “current page” gets bigger but that’s not it.
Matt Campbell
in reply to David Machaj • • •David Machaj
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •Andrew🇺🇦
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •The new one is easy to read whereas the old one (at least on my Android phone) renders strangely: the line spacing is off so that some "tall" letters touch the line above.
That being said, I'd at least change the font of the new one to something like Arial, because the new one looks very dated. Since your product is a tech product, if I were a potential client I'd wonder "if the website hasn't been touched in years, is their product kept current?"
Matt Campbell
in reply to Andrew🇺🇦 • • •Andrew🇺🇦
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •Seth
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •I like the new site, it’s mostly fine and looks good. I don’t have an issue with the san serif typeface but the leading is pretty dense. If the lines could be separated a little it might be a bit more easily readable (I think that’d be line-height). This is in Safari on my iPhone 14 Pro Max.
Just checked it on my Mac in Firefox and have the same thought. Looks good, would be a little more readable if there was a bit more space between each line of type.
But again, it’s simple and looks great!
Matt Campbell
in reply to Seth • • •Michael Ryan Hunsaker
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •Matt Campbell
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •Update: The new AccessKit website style is live at accesskit.dev/
Thanks to everyone who provided feedback.
Zoidberg For President
in reply to Matt Campbell • • •Matt Campbell
in reply to Zoidberg For President • • •