someone asked me earlier this week: when getting funded for maintaining an open source project, how do you measure that you're doing a good job? How does the funder know they're getting value from it?
Tricky question. It made me realize we don't really know if we're doing good job in general. So I wrote up this blog post.
When I speak of curl in this post, I lump curl the command line tool and libcurl the library into one, and I just call them curl. Related: my webinar titled "Why everyone is using curl and you should too".
You could add a comscore solicitation in the CLI to ask "How likely are you to recommend Curl to a friend? (0-10):"
</joke>
I do think there's demonstrable value if looking at changes over time. Not lines of code or anything, but _what_ the changes represent. Bug fixes, features added, features removed, external contributors (representing a sort-of community health / good stewardship).
I recognize the difficulty, though, since it all seems indirect. Trust is a big factor, I reckon
it is mentionned in the article that phone apps need to build their own libcurls because the OS does not expose it’s own. Why is this ? It would help reduce app sizes a lot !
great question. How DO you measure a project like (lib)curl? Your post does a great job outlining the ambiguity of that.
Perhaps one thing that is easier to measure is developer activity? You mention GitHub stars but there is also issues, forums, social media, probably many more developer facing things?
> they are making a practical argument that I cannot, despite my best efforts, find compelling evidence to refute categorically
If you believe that the ethical problems trump the purported practical benefits regardless of whether those benefits are real, then that is a kind of categorical refutation. Perhaps that's a way to have a definitive resolution rather than the inconclusive surrender at the end of the post.
> to wit, I want to have everything in the computer be orderly and make sense,
This! In the Lobsters discussion about Steve Klabnik's post, he said that a lot of non-programmers are already comfortable with treating computers as magic boxes. I tried to push back, but I don't think he got it, and I haven't yet tried again.
Don't hesitate to characterize these as principled, carefully considered ethical objections. Sure, that makes us feel like a tiny minority in the current, noisy tech discourse. Whether we are such a tiny minority is debatable. One anecdote: My sister is a graphic designer, and she objects to genAI because of the energy use, the stealing, and of course, the deliberate intent to take away work from artists.
If you want me to stop, because you don't want to discuss this anymore, I will. But I'm trying to help you (and yes, myself too) feel _more_ at peace about this.
> Sure, I even sincerely agree, intellectual property really has been a pretty bad idea from the beginning.
Perhaps, just as we've had to, possibly reluctantly, move beyond the simplicity of free-speech absolutism because of the weaponized hate and disinformation out there, we might also need to move beyond the simplicity of "information wants to be free" because of the massive power asymmetry, which precedes genAI (e.g. megacorps exploiting unpaid open-source maintainers).
@matt yep. “You should be able to use technology for good things and to help people and you should not be able to use technology for bad things and to harm people” is not a double standard, it’s just … a standard. There are obviously big complicated questions about who gets to choose and what criteria they can use, but “billionaires” and “because it seems cool to them” are not the correct answers to those questions
@matt The fact that laypeople have given up on treating consumer-grade computers as reliable technology is a fucking _tragedy_, not something to acknowledge and move on from. It's a big problem in the industry and it is the result of specific choices. It is not inevitable!
@matt the problem is that the proponents are doing a pascal’s mugging. The ones at the top aren’t promising a 15% marginal return on investment in developer productivity. They’re promising an end to cancer and a technological solution to climate change. Brain microchips and arcologies, full luxury automated space communism, an end to work and an end to lack. If it could actually do half the stuff they claim at the limits, the ethical tradeoffs might actually be worth it.
To which I would respond that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and those claims don't have any such evidence to back them up. So we need to weigh the ethical problems against the mediocre evidence we do have.
FWIW, this post is now at the top of Lobsters (I submitted it), with mostly positive comments so far (6 out of 7, and the 7th was just skeptical about the extent to which genAI is being forced on developers), though admittedly it's only just now morning here in the US.
"No matter how much you try to cut, it’s primarily a drop in tax revenues that is causing the deficit to balloon." <-- Big Beautiful Bogus statuskuo.substack.com/p/musk-…
Come help us make UI code feel good, readable, and even… magical. <confetti toss> Also: come argue about names with very awesome people! jobs.apple.com/en-us/details/2…
This is SUCH a fun team to work on! Join us! (Role is in Cupertino)
Vatican News - Pope Leo XIV and Russian President Vladimir Putin spoke by phone this afternoon, focusing especially on the war in Ukraine. vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/20…
Award-winning, full-cast original audio dramas from the worlds of Doctor Who, Torchwood, Blake's 7, Class, Dark Shadows, The Avengers, Survivors, The Omega Factor, Star Cops, Sherlock Holmes, Dorian Gray, Pathfinder Legends, The Prisoner, Adam Adaman…
Today marks the 45th anniversary of the final episode of the iconic television series The Waltons, which aired on June 4, 1981, bringing to a close a nine-season run that captured the hearts of millions.
Welcome to this new Jami development update! Over the past few weeks, we've focused on stability, maintenance, and some key feature improvements across both the core and platform-specific components. Let’s dive into what’s new.
You brought your questions to our team, and in the latest State of the Thunder, we're bringing the answers! This discussion covers a wide range of topics, from bringing the new monthly Release channel to Flatpak and Snap to accessibility to UI.
Purism makes premium phones, laptops, mini PCs and servers running free software on PureOS. Purism products respect people's privacy and freedom while protecting their security.
This is a repository of apps to be used with your F-Droid client. Applications in this repository are official binaries built by the original application developers, taken from their resp. repositories (mostly Github, GitLab, Codeberg).
Dneska jsme brutalne slapli do vyvoje Volebni Kalkulacky.
Kafe v Laznich Jidlo v Mikyne Kafe v Palaci Zmrzlina u Ledy Pivo ve Vokne
Mame velke plany k podzimnim volbam a potuneny repozitar k zapojeni vice lidi. Pripojte se k nam na talk.kalkulacka.one a muzete se vrhnout na nejake to React kodovani.
Radi zapojime i ne-kodovaci lidi na rozsirovani Kalkulacky, domlouvani zapojeni v mediich nebo projektove rizeni.
Catholic bishops sue Washington state over law requiring clergy to report child abuse The Trump administration has launched an investigation into the law, calling it "anti-Catholic." The bishops say it would force them to break their oaths.
June 4, 2025 marks the First Annual World Day for Assistive Technology. awarenessdays.com/awareness-da… Devices that help #Disabled folks live more fulfilling, independent lives have come a tremendously long way over the years, so let's hear your stories. What's the first piece of #AssistiveTech you remember using? (yes, mobility devices count.) What's been your favorite? Least favorite? Most helpful? Most Fun? And what are your AT dreams for the future? We can't wait to hear about them. #WorldATDay #Blind #Accessibility
Ah, so reasonable people who aren't aware of the settings will be quoted by those who love to dogpile, but those knowingly spreading misinformation will be uncorrectable.
I literally just came back here after a few months break, and that's one of the first things I see. *sighs*
@citc I mean, the right aproach to that problem is a service like Birdwatch (now rebranded as "community notes"), but it has... too much of a musky smell to it.
Want to know more about Thunderbird Pro, including Thundermail? Our latest Community Office Hours has you covered! We're discussing planned features, answering questions, and getting to know our new productivity suite before it hatches!
Looks very exciting, especially the fact that some of these services will be self-hostable! I'm curious about Thunderbird Send: if it's end-to-end encrypted but shared without a password, how are anonymous clients able to decrypt the file contents, but the Send server is not? Is the decryption key stored in the URL (and not persisted/logged on the server)?
Edit: looks like this is partially discussed around 42 minutes in, but I'm not sure how it works for password-free files.
@oac Thanks for the excitement and your questions! We've forwarded them to our services team, and we'll have more detailed information on this and other features as we get ready to roll out a beta for Send in the near future.
Thunderbird Pro is a new suite of optional, subscription based productivity services we're introducing in the near future! Thunderbird Appointment, an open-source scheduling web app is the first product out in beta, and we describe the other services (Send, a private file-sharing service; Assist, an AI-powered add on with summarizes and advanced search; and Thundermail, a new privacy-focused email provider!). blog.thunderbird.net/2025/04/t…
Time to grab your free sticker pack! The Month of #LibreOffice, May 2025 is over – and we're announcing the winners. (If you helped to promote the software here with the hashtag, you should be on the list.) Find out more: blog.documentfoundation.org/bl… #foss #OpenSource
For day 4 of #AudioMo, I talk briefly about 'the next'. I've just been told that the book I'm reading is "the next Murderbot". I heard that hundreds of fantasy epics were "The next Game of thrones!" Bah.
Purism makes premium phones, laptops, mini PCs and servers running free software on PureOS. Purism products respect people's privacy and freedom while protecting their security.
So now #purism is about U.S imperialism and "momeland security" instead of freedom and privacy ? that will stop me from buying anymore products of them.
Dans le cadre de la conférence "Ambition France Transports" lancée en mai par François Bayrou, la piste d'une nouvelle taxe sur chaque billet de train a été proposée selon Les Echos. Une proposition qui est loin de faire l'unanimité.
Submitted two(!) proposals for talks at the Matrix Conference[1]. If any are accepted I guess we'll find out whether I really am ready for the pre-talk stress (from which I have been taking a break for a year or so).
Při převodu bitcoinů na stát, u kterého byl notář i náměstek ministra spravedlnosti Radomír Daňhel, poslal odsouzený obchodník s drogami Tomáš Jiřikovský podle zjištění Deníku N část kryptoměny v hodnotě 36,5 milionu korun bokem.
"I have nothing to hide! I don't need to protect my digital identity"
Well, things are changing rapidly!
👉 AI is scraping your data 👉 AI is used by scammers to create better scams 👉 Data breaches are increasing 👉 We've entered a new era of government surveillance
Thanks for the tips! I use TOTP for 2FA on most sites. Security keys feel a bit excessive for me, so I go with Bitwarden passkeys whenever available! #bitwarden
I've been thinking of getting a security key as a "Privacy helper". 2 that I've looked at are Solo and Yubikey. Do you have a suggestion as to which might be the better of the 2?
Right. If somebody says something like that to me I always abswer that I also have nothing to hide. But that doesn't mean that you can breach my privacy, come into my home, sniff out every tiny detail of my life to sell me crap or scam me.
'Keep your software updated' illustrates how bad IT actually is when it comes to security,... We should get finished products with proven security by having passed a security audit. Imagine buying a new car and being contacted by the seller after 1 month to inform you that some part needs to be replaced because it makes your car insecure. You get the part replaced but 1 month later the seller contacts you again to inform you that an other (or the first replacement) part needs to be replaced because it makes your car insecure,... How long do you think it will take for you to start getting pissed and stop believing you have been sold something secure?
statuskuo.substack.com/p/musk-…
![he text above the image reads: Ever since I learned the word for a group of raccoons is a gaze, scenes from English literature take on whole new meanings. [laughing-emoji]
Within the image, there are four different scenes corresponding to different literary quotes. Number 1: "Your gaze is very direct, Miss Eyre" from Charlotte Bronte's Jane Eyre. In the picture, Jane Eyre is accompanied by a group of raccoons, one of whom has just said to Mr. Rochester, "We want food!" Number 2: "She returned his gaze" from Ian McEwan's Atonement shows a woman carrying a box full of raccoons back to her reluctant ex-boyfriend. Number 3: "His gaze was direct, holding my eyes" from Diana Gabaldon's Outlander shows a clustered group of racoons physically holding open a shocked woman's eyelids. And number 4: "That somber, thoughtful gaze of his did not leave her face. She did not find it embarrassing" from Agatha Christie's Towards Zero shows a woman on a sun-lounger with her face entirely covered by a swarm of raccoons.](https://fedi.ml/photo/preview/640/674106 "he text above the image reads: Ever since I learned the word for a group of raccoons is a gaze, scenes from English literature take on whole new meanings. [laughing-emoji]
Within the image, there are four different scenes corresponding to different literary quotes. Number 1: \"Your gaze is very direct, Miss Eyre\" from Charlotte Bronte's Jane Eyre. In the picture, Jane Eyre is accompanied by a group of raccoons, one of whom has just said to Mr. Rochester, \"We want food!\" Number 2: \"She returned his gaze\" from Ian McEwan's Atonement shows a woman carrying a box full of raccoons back to her reluctant ex-boyfriend. Number 3: \"His gaze was direct, holding my eyes\" from Diana Gabaldon's Outlander shows a clustered group of racoons physically holding open a shocked woman's eyelids. And number 4: \"That somber, thoughtful gaze of his did not leave her face. She did not find it embarrassing\" from Agatha Christie's Towards Zero shows a woman on a sun-lounger with her face entirely covered by a swarm of raccoons.")
daniel:// stenberg://
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •someone asked me earlier this week: when getting funded for maintaining an open source project, how do you measure that you're doing a good job? How does the funder know they're getting value from it?
Tricky question. It made me realize we don't really know if we're doing good job in general. So I wrote up this blog post.
Santiago Piqueras
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •> It made me realize we don't really know if we're doing good job in general.
Curl: So widely use that Microsoft aliases curl to lie to their users github.com/PowerShell/PowerShe…
Also curl: So trusted that it runs on Mars daniel.haxx.se/blog/2021/12/03…
Also curl: The easiest way to display a parrot in you terminal github.com/hugomd/parrot.live
I don't know, man :)
Why curl is used everywhere, even on Mars
daniel.haxx.sedaniel:// stenberg://
in reply to Santiago Piqueras • • •Sharlatan
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •Bradley Schaefer
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •You could add a comscore solicitation in the CLI to ask "How likely are you to recommend Curl to a friend? (0-10):"
</joke>
I do think there's demonstrable value if looking at changes over time. Not lines of code or anything, but _what_ the changes represent. Bug fixes, features added, features removed, external contributors (representing a sort-of community health / good stewardship).
I recognize the difficulty, though, since it all seems indirect. Trust is a big factor, I reckon
Étienne Parmentier
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •daniel:// stenberg://
in reply to Étienne Parmentier • • •Jaanus Kase
in reply to daniel:// stenberg:// • • •great question. How DO you measure a project like (lib)curl? Your post does a great job outlining the ambiguity of that.
Perhaps one thing that is easier to measure is developer activity? You mention GitHub stars but there is also issues, forums, social media, probably many more developer facing things?