Look, these extreme positions are completely unhelpful. Injecting bleach into your veins is obviously bad, but only a few people recommend that. And, yes, they're trying to sell bleach and are fully bought into the hype. But the other extreme, not consuming any bleach, is just as unhealthy. Bleach consumption is the future. You just need to do it in appropriate places, such as with a meal. I have one small glass of bleach with lunch and then a larger glass with dinner. I drink it, from a clear glass, so I can see exactly what I'm consuming. Obviously injecting it is a bad idea, but drinking bleach responsibly is good for you, as long as you know what you're doing. Of course, I'm an expert at drinking stuff, in the hands of an amateur it might cause problems. Don't be put off by all of the bleach refusers. They're just anti progress. Anyone who isn't getting experienced drinking bleach is going to be left behind. Just drink it responsibly.
Now, some people object to some of the process of manufacturing bleach. Yes, it does involve dumping toxic chemicals in rivers when you buy bleach from the big vendors. But that's why I use ethically sourced bleach, which comes from a factory in China where it has a certificate saying that it complied with all local environmental regulations. If you're worried about the ethical aspects of drinking bleach, always drink ethical bleach.
I've also recently heard people complain that people drinking and injecting bleach has driven up prices and hospitals can't afford to properly clean wards, leading to an increased infection rate. That's true today, but you're thinking in the short term. The increased demand for bleach means that the supply will increase and economies of scale will make bleach prices come down.
Arvid Hällen
in reply to Tuta • • •Anh Nguyen Nguyen
in reply to Tuta • • •I would love to have a Volla phone someday! I am currently using a Pixel 3a XL, but with Ubuntu Touch on it, so it still takes me a while to completely degoogle.
Do you have any plans in the near future to develop a Tuta app for Ubuntu Touch too? It is not quite convenient because I need to use WayDroid to access my Tuta mail.
Tuta
in reply to Anh Nguyen Nguyen • • •F-Droid
in reply to Tuta • • •Tuta
in reply to F-Droid • • •Nicro
in reply to Tuta • • •Tuta
in reply to Nicro • • •Venicone
in reply to Tuta • • •SmarTekk
in reply to Tuta • • •cake-duke
in reply to SmarTekk • • •SmarTekk
in reply to cake-duke • • •Okuna
in reply to SmarTekk • • •@andree4live @oneloop additionally, every website you visit you should check if it's hosted in the Google Cloud because that would mean it's not Google Free either.
So the question is, what is the definition of Google Free? For me, it is by default no connections to any Google server, no usage of any Google app, etc. And the control is fully with the user.
And with this definition, as far as I know, there is only #grapheneOS.
Others seem to connect at least to the captive portal or supl or connectivity checks to google server
0x0
in reply to Okuna • • •@andree4live @oneloop
Still waiting for it to run on (almost) anything other that a pixel.
Okuna
in reply to 0x0 • • •So I swallow the shit that i have to buy google hw.
cake-duke
in reply to Okuna • • •@Okuna I wonder on what basis you say this.
I'm not an expert, so I can't evaluate by myself. However, the incessant mud slinging by the grapheneOS project to anything that isn't produced by them, makes me skeptical.
Okuna
in reply to cake-duke • • •But since there is no perfect solution where moral and communication and technical capabilities etc are all perfect, I have to prioritize.
Whenever I needed help from the forum or from people in the discussion forums of GrapheneOS, I got competent and quick help.
Rebel Zhang
in reply to cake-duke • • •Tuta
in reply to Rebel Zhang • • •Okuna
in reply to Tuta • • •@GrapheneOS
Ash
in reply to Tuta • • •I am quite happy with the shiftphone 8 I got from @shiftphones
currently running lineageos on it
YourShadowDani
in reply to Tuta • • •crepererum
in reply to Tuta • • •ĞÖKÜ👻👻™
in reply to Tuta • • •🎆🎉 Masto New Year 🎊🎇
in reply to Tuta • • •Drifthood
in reply to Tuta • • •since 5 years i use a phone from the murena shop, now a fairphone
no problems, very good
it is a preinstalled option no tinkering required
• Łącze
in reply to Tuta • • •• GrapheneOS
Murena - „degoogled"?
hear-me.social/@Lacze/11502548…
• Łącze (@Lacze@hear-me.social)
• Łącze (hear-me.social -- Tell us)Antonín Pavlas
in reply to Tuta • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to Tuta • • •Every option you're promoting has atrocious privacy and security. Each one lacks the most basic privacy and security patches/protections.
You're also making highly inaccurate and misleading claims about GrapheneOS. This has been a repeated issue with Tuta. It's not surprising considering you're supporting groups not only scamming people but actively spreading misinformation about GrapheneOS and attacking our team with harassment.
We're going to be publishing a response to Tuta.
cake-duke
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •@GrapheneOS @Okuna grapheneOS incessant mud slinging. You're toxic.
social.tchncs.de/@Okuna/115826…
Okuna
2026-01-02 18:18:59
GrapheneOS
in reply to cake-duke • • •@oneloop @Okuna No, it's you who is toxic. You engage in libel and harassment along with supporting companies led by serial harassers. Here's the CEO of Murena linking to libelous harassment content from a neo-nazi conspiracy site as part of directly supporting French law enforcement attacks on GrapheneOS:
archive.is/SWXPJ
archive.is/n4yTO
Murena has engaged in very extensive harassment, false marketing and outright scamming. That's toxic, not your lies about us.
GrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •confettiarenasabotage
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Out of curiosity, in which ways are Tuta's services "highly flawed" in your opinion ? You said this and I'd like to know the base of this claim please.
cake-duke
in reply to confettiarenasabotage • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to cake-duke • • •@oneloop @Canning1452 As a reminder, here you are spreading a false story about GrapheneOS with absolutely no evidence earlier in this thread while making an attack on us:
mastodon.xyz/@oneloop/11582759…
You're spreading a baseless lie about our team (libel) while having seen absolutely no evidence for it. At the same time, you're falsely accusing us of doing what you're objectively and provably doing earlier in this thread. It's ridiculous how desperate you folks are to attack GrapheneOS.
cake-duke
2026-01-02 21:21:09
feld
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •sysnetadmyn
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •hey! Everybody just chill out for a minute here, go take a break and come back when we can learn to work together, instead of hurting the community.
I have spoken
Tuta
in reply to sysnetadmyn • • •Tuta
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Tuta
in reply to Tuta • • •We specifically mentioned GrapheneOS because we believe it's a great project, some of our developers use GrapheneOS as well.
So we believe, this is a misunderstanding, and we'd like to understand and fix it.
SmarTekk
in reply to Tuta • • •Raven
in reply to Tuta • • •GrapheneOS only supports Pixel devices because they're the only devices that match the security requirements of GrapheneOS. They would use another manufacturer if these requirements would be met.
grapheneos.org/faq#future-devi…
GrapheneOS Frequently Asked Questions
GrapheneOSDoerk
in reply to Tuta • • •I would say that even though GrapheneOS requires hardware made by Google, it can be called „degoogled“. Why? Because the phone itself doesn’t use any Google services. It doesn’t phone home and it doesn’t share any data with Google. It’s just a bloody good piece of hardware and currently the best platform for a save and security mobile OS.
But when you consider that degoogling isn’t just stop using any Google services and sharing data with them, but also not buying anything from Google, then it’s probably not degoogling.
GrapheneOS
in reply to Tuta • • •Tuta
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •GrapheneOS
in reply to Tuta • • •You misrepresent multiple of the options you're promoting lacking basic privacy and security patches as being hardened. You're heavily promoting them as private despite them failing to provide standard privacy protections and patches.
Murena has engaged in years of relentless attacks on GrapheneOS inclouding harassment towards our team. We've posted a recent example of them doing it as part of trying to take advantage of French law enforcement attacks on GrapheneOS.
Tuta
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •• Łącze
in reply to Tuta • • •Tuta care about security? Yes? 🙃
👉 There is no privacy without security.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=WkQ_OCzu…
odysee.com/@davidbombal:0/why-…
Exclusive Interview With A GrapheneOS Developer
YouTubeGrapheneOS
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Fairphone is a Google partner with their own OS having official privileged Google Mobile Services integration but yet it's on your list.
/e/ always connects to Google services and has highly privileged integration for Googe apps and services unavailable to other apps but yet it's on your list.
You're making highly inaccurate claims to promote each of the 5 for-profit options you've included on your list including the nonsense claim that CalyxOS and Punkt are hardened.
Tuta
in reply to GrapheneOS • • •Ruvkalo
in reply to Tuta • • •PlutonicXT
in reply to Tuta • • •Still, I hope you both can resolve this, and maybe GrapheneOS are right!
For example I was very suspicious when I first saw /e/ a few years ago - they wanted us to "register", the opposite of what Tuta quite rightly do in fact!
I love using Tuta mail!
Xtreix
in reply to Tuta • • •"DeGoogle" is the mistake, It's a meaningless term and its imaginary goal is completely irrelevant. All the products highlighted in your article are very poor in terms of security and privacy, and if we are to follow your reasoning, they are not "DeGoogle" in any way whatsoever, they all use Google services and they all depend on Google services, some, such as /e/, include their own intrusive services.
GrapheneOS really improves things, and this can be verified, these other products that you are promoting do not improve things, they make them worse. Presenting them under the guise of ‘deGoogle’ and ‘digital sovereignty’ is not relevant and is not judicious.
Emily
in reply to Tuta • • •Emily
in reply to Tuta • • •Emily
in reply to Tuta • • •Super Man
in reply to Tuta • • •Klaus
in reply to Tuta • • •One thing that bugs me, though, is the incredible stupidity of app developers (banking apps and the like) that force Google (or Apple, for that matter) down your throat. Still looking for a way to get them reasonable.
(European) digital sovereignty, anyone?
@volla @murena
MetropleX
in reply to Tuta • • •Miguel Torrellas
in reply to Tuta • • •marcusxms
in reply to Miguel Torrellas • • •Tuta
in reply to marcusxms • • •HybridStaticAnimate
in reply to Tuta • • •I am incredibly disappointed in Tuta for publishing this blogpost. The options Tuta has presented worsen privacy and security, and this blogpost is is filled with misinformation. This seems counter to their stated goals.
I no longer have faith in Tuta to maintain my privacy or security, and I am reconsidering using the services that Tuta provides.
sugargrit
in reply to Tuta • • •If there's a list of private alternatives to Android but GrapheneOS is just an honoury mention, then there's nothing wrong with questioning the list.
While I'm not defending GrapheneOS's agitated response here, their arguments about questionable security and privacy of the products you promoted seems reasonable.
Tuta is a well respected secure email service. When you recommend alternatives, please keep the same standards in mind.
Gabor de Mooij
in reply to Tuta • • •Kenner
in reply to Tuta • • •Malka Beth
in reply to Tuta • • •They're essentially all the same design, which is to say multiple camera having, GPS, AIs in the form of digital assistants embedded in them & none have physical keyboards, only Volla is military grade durable in said hardware, but it doesn't work in my country. So for my long-term needs in any smartphone I'd pay for, as they'd work for me year-round, which include having a physical keyboard, no AI and durability, none of these are real options.
Diversity in hardware is needed in the open source sphere, for widespread adoption to be possible. #DisabilityAccessibility #OpenSourceHardware #deGoogled
*I know what amounts to an open source version of a blackberry smartphone does exist, as I believe sliders (with full keyboards & bigger screens than blackberry) do, both being durable but I've yet to see any #deGoogled phones in those different design categories.
Hudobni volk
in reply to Tuta • • •The title of the blog:
"DeGoogled phones, made in Europe: Fairphone, Volla, SHIFTphone, Punkt – a full review."
May require to read the title once more (or twice) for some..
btw: the text is then upgraded with the manufacturers os choises.. yes..
It is time for European tech to free itself and rise from the dead. We are no slaves to no one.
Xtreix
in reply to Tuta • • •AL
in reply to Tuta • • •I'm in the USA right now and I sure wish there was an equivalent choice in the USA.
The #corporatization problem is world-wide.
Back To Analog
in reply to Tuta • • •Nina 👩💻
in reply to Tuta • • •bub4don
in reply to Tuta • • •@GrapheneOS
I am shocked that GrapheneOS is not part of the initial post. It should be on top of the list.
My dream would be Shift phone hardware with GrapheneOS.
I switched from iOS to GOS and I seem to never look elsewhere in the future
Nicht nur ein Traum
in reply to Tuta • • •Emily
in reply to Tuta • • •Urs Naegeli
in reply to Tuta • • •Fairphone, since 2013.
@volla @Fairphone @murena
ReindeR Rustema
in reply to Tuta • • •Jdb_env
in reply to Tuta • • •@tinker
For me, it'
#ungoogle / #ungafam ,
Graphene os offers a high level of security.
I am considering buying one, but second-hand.
I am also looking into putting another os on my old Samsung A6, if anyone knows how to.
JMZ
in reply to Tuta • • •lime360
in reply to Tuta • • •imho i think there should be a privacy-respecting feature phone, kinda like sidephone
i barely use a smartphone and prefer doing stuff on a laptop